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HomeMy WebLinkAboutComm No 0005.01 - GMAC Legislative HIstory - Sept 14 2018Douglass Shipman Adams Chairperson Jennifer Leilani Zelko-Schlueter Vice Chairperson 2018-2020 HAWAII COUNTY CHARTER COMMISSION William Carthage Bergin Michelle Galimba Paul K. Hamano Kevin D. Hopkins Bobby Jean Akane Leithead Todd Sarah H. Rice Christopher John Imiloa Roehrig Marcia A.K. Saquing Donna Mae Springer Date: October 1, 2018 To: Douglass Shipman Adams, Chair and Members of the Hawai`i County Charter Commission From: Jon Henricks, Commission Analyst RE: Legislative History for Section 6-9.3; Game Management Advisory Commission As requested during discussion of Communication No. 5 at the Commission's September 14, 2018, meeting, attached are excerpts of transcripts from Council deliberations for Ordinance No. 12-110, which initiated a proposed amendment to the County Charter to establish a Game Management Advisory Commission. Additionally, the legislative history and electoral approval process are summarized as follows: Ordinance No. 12-110 was introduced as Bill No. 260 during the 2010-2012 Council term. It was waived from committee, appearing for first reading on the June 6, 2012, Council agenda. 1. Passed First Reading on June 6, 2012 2. Passed Second Reading on June 19, 2012 3. Passed Third and Final Reading on July 3, 2012 Vote: Eight ayes; One absent. Vote: Nine ayes. Vote: Nine ayes. Question as it appeared on the 2012 General Election ballot: "PROPOSAL NO. 6: Establishing a Game Management Advisory Commission Shall the Hawai`i County Charter be amended to create a Game Management Advisory Commission that would advise County, State, and Federal agencies on matters related to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing, protection of traditional and cultural gathering rights, and the taking and conservation of aquatic life and wildlife?" Vote Count = 37,380 Yes 19,756 No 6,638 Blank JDH Hawai`i County is an Equal Opportunity Provider and Employer Comm. No. 5.1 Transcript of Bill 260 from the June 6, 2012, Council meeting: » Bill 260 initiates an amendment to the Hawai'i County Charter 2010 by amending Article 6, Chapter 9, by creating a new section relating to a Game Management Advisory Commission. Creates a Game Management Advisory Commission consisting of 9 members, who shall be appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Council. This Commission shall advise County, State and Federal agencies on matters relating to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing as well as protecting traditional and cultural gathering right and also sets forth other criteria. This bill was introduced by Mr. Yagong and waived by the HSSPSC Committee. Bill 261 amends Chapter 14, General Welfare, Hawai'i County Code, 1983 (2005 Edition, as amended), relating to animal eradication. The purpose of this measure makes clear that County of Hawaii as a body corporate with the ability and responsibility to maintain the public health, safety and welfare of its people declares that the acts of eradication by aerial shooting on this island shall no longer be practiced and insures that other methods of animal population control are utilized, which takes full account the will of the people regarding these methods. States that it is a violation of this Article for any person to engage in the eradication of any animal for any reason which being transported by helicopter, airplane or any other similar means. This bill was introduced by Mr. Yagong and waived by the HSSPSC Committee. And Communication 731.1 from Chairperson Dominic Yagong, dated May 29, 2012, stating that a presentation will be made by Mr. Tony Sylvester regarding the aerial shooting of animals and the need to protect subsistence, cultural and traditional gathering rights through the formation of a Game Management Advisory Council, Commission. » Mr. Pilago. » Mr. Chair, motion to...thank you...Mr. Chair, motion to approve Bill 260 and Bill 261 and to file its related communications. » I need a second. » Second. » Second by Ms. Smart. Okay with that » Mr. Chair, » Go ahead. » motion to bifurcate Bill 260 from 261. » Is there a second? » Second. » Second by Ms. Ford. Motion on the floor is to divide 260 and 261. Any discussion on that motion? Madam Clerk, please. Seeing none, motion to bifurcate, please. Hang on, hang on, hang on. » (inaudible) » Did we lose Kona? » Yeah. Hang on. We got to (inaudible) » Oh, there's Mr. Pilago. Mr. Pilago, can hear us okay? » Yes, I can. » Okay. 1 » Chairman, can I just ask for a brief, brief discussion? » Have we lost Pahoa? » We lost Pahoa (inaudible) » Okay, let's take a brief recess. » (Gavel pounds.) Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. The Hawai'i County Council is now reconvened. Council members, at this time we actually have a motion to bifurcate the Bill 260 and 261. I'm going to ask Mr. Pilago to withdraw that motion and also withdraw the motion to approve both Bill 260 and 261. We'll leave live on the floor Communication 731 so we can have the presentation and then we'll come back for the motion for Bill 261. Thank you, Ms. Smart. » You're welcome. » Okay... Mr. Pilago. » Thank you, Mr. Chair. We're... we're willing to comply. We at this time withdraw the motion to bifurcate. » Thank you. » And subsequent to that we withdraw the motion to approve both Bill 260 and 261 » Which we're on. Thank you very much. So what 's live on the floor is Communication 731.1. The motion is to close file. And that is a presentation by Mr. Tony Silvester so sir, please take it away. Thank you very much. » Okay, I'll start over. First of all I'll thank all of you and everyone that came here today and it's been a long day. Okay. I'm basing this as pono, balance and dialogue. I think this is a lot of what's been missing with like our State agencies and hunters and stuff so... you know first of all to me pono and... is doing the right thing, yuh. And balance. Balance is where... you know... the word's been tossed around a lot lately. You know taking everything into consideration. And this is what we really need to do. In our beautiful aina, hunting opportunities... family bonding... sustenance... our culture... our environment... food for the palila... and species survival. Okay, one of the main facts I'd like to point out here is that... you know before the arrival of modern man to the Hawaiian Islands, large flightless birds foraged around the forest floor... on Native plants. They kept the underbrush maintained... just as the pig, sheep and goats do today. You don't see too much record of this because most of these birds were extinct by the time... I guess botanists got in the forest. But I work up on Mauna Kea and I've visited many caves where in some caves it's over three feet deep of these birds' bones. So they ranged all the way up to twelve thousand feet at one time. Okay... dialogue. I think dialogue is the biggest part and that's the most trouble that I've had over the past year with the DLNR. Is... you know... trying to get together with them and trying to express some of the concerns that us as hunters and gatherers have. You know... and for mainly I'm going to talk with the threats to the survival of the palila. You know and a lot of the problems that face the palila bird extinction... its blaming about the sheep and the reduction of its habitat, although as you can on these figures here, that a lot of this stuff here is you know... predation... even the cat scat... sixty-eight percent was found to have bird parts in it. And I don't like to use the word feral because anything born in the wild is a wild animal. It's not a feral animal. It's not your house cat that escaped or whatever. Once an animal is born in the wild, it's a wild animal. So we talk about sheep. They're not feral sheep, they're wild sheep. Okay... this is a video... it's a short clip. This is 2 from the U. S. Geological survey. This is a palila bird nest in the center. I know it's kind of blurry. That's the mother bird feeding the young and they have quite a few of these cameras up in the palila habitat. And within a moment here you're going to see on the lower right, you're going to see what happens to the palila birds. These wild cats are designed to hunt these nests. Here he comes. As soon as the mom leaves... whappa... gone. Okay. I got footage. I got dozens of footage of this... of different cats doing this to the palila. Okay. It's right there. It's eating the birds. Okay. All right. The palila nests on the main trunks of the trees so the rats and cats get right in there. And they watch the parents. The cats watch `cause the grass is so tall now, because the ungulates the level is way down, yuh. So they just hide. They watch the parents where they're flying in and out and as soon as the parents fly off... whoop... they're right in there. Gone. Okay and also... rats has also been a big predator to all forest birds yeah in a way. And the relocation affects... you know when they try to relocate birds, the birds are a natal creature so they only like to hang on at that particular habitat so even when they move a colony somewhere else, eventually they're going to fly back or they die from predation. That's why their success rate is so low, yuh. And of course, weather effects. You know the changing weather. You know... cold conditions. A lot of their habitat was lower in the ranch lands... that have been deforested. Used for cattle. So the only ones that survive are higher up where it's colder so they're more susceptible to those kind of problems. And of... of course the drought affects all life in Hawai'i including the palila. Habitat degradation. This is a lot of what you'll hear from the environmentalists and conservation people. And this is where we come in where if the State actually had a game management plan, you know we wouldn't have a lot of the problems that we have today. And I always say we must also ask ourselves why something so fundamental to every other State is absent in Hawai'i. And that's something I can never answer. Not even myself. I don't know. And you've already heard about carrying capacities and everything. And a lot of habitat degradation happens when unchecked populations in a given area... animals confined to a smaller range... fencing... so you start fencing things off they become more of a problem in that particular area so fencing is not a very efficient way either. And this is one of the biggest problems here. Funding for game management. Okay... that's it. Funding for programs. This is the four major programs under the DLNR, yuh. So this is what they get. Six point five (6.5) million from the federal and two point five (2.5) that just got passed by the House Bill 2012. So out of... so what we get that... and these programs get this. So follow the money. And then hunters, there's eighteen thousand licensed hunters in Hawai'i. Average is probably two thousand dollars a year. I know guys that spend way more than that, especially if you got good dogs and you know all the care and feed and you know all that, so your costs can go up a lot. That's a tune of thirty-six million a year spent on hunting. If hunting goes away, what's going to replace that thirty-six million? Okay this... couple of these screens got cut off because I did this in... on a MAC and I'm playing it on here now. But basically you know... no funding for game management plan. And less slaughter of our game animals. Degradation of our land and conflicts. So the no game management plan, lots of money for other programs, and here it says... do you really know what is going on, in our mountains. And on a... this is where it gets... it gets bad. Okay... we got the aerial shootings... slaughters... and you know, DLNR here locally... I... I'm not here to bash them or anything, they try their best, but you know the conditions and everything... 3 it's... this is insanity what they're doing, really. » What... what was... what was that, that you just showed? » That's piles of sheep that were just shot. And removed. Okay. A big problem here is invasive weeds. Since the ungulates have been removed, this area here hasn't had any sheep or goats in probably twenty to thirty years, and as you can see the landscape has not recovered. This used to be cattle at one time. And now it's all fireweed. And fireweed is toxic to cattle and it's spread all into Waiki'i Ranch and everything so eventually it's going to spread all over and the quality of ranch pasture land is way down because of this. And the cattle will die from this. Goat and sheep love this. There was a ten year study done in PTA that they fenced off one area, left the ungulates in and fenced off another area and took... removed all the ungulates and in ten years, there was a twenty-five (25.0) percent increase in growth without the ungulates. So everybody's like oh... great. When they got down there and they analyzed it, twenty-four point nine (24.9) percent was invasive weeds. One point on (1.1) percent was Native. And the side that had the ungulates had zero invasive weeds. So you get rid of the animal, the weeds are going to take over. And that's the ecosystem that they're creating. Unless you go in there now with poisons and stuff like that. Each one of these plants has thirty thousand seeds on it. Another big problem. The wild cats. This is tracks that... I go bird hunting and then they're following me. And then we get to the fencing. Millions of dollars of fencing, and this is what happens to them. Okay. Unchecked fences for miles. Funded by our tax dollars. Carnage. Hundreds of animals shot. And left to rot. I blurred it a little just so it's not... there's a row of animals here. About thirty of them along a fence. They drove them up against a fence line and shot them all and left them there. These animals are trapped in a lava field, a five mile square in the impact area so they'll die of starvation. This animal here... as you look down the road there you'll see carcasses all the way down. And this is Mazie Hirono funded this fence here and she's proud of it but I wish she would see the results of what's happening to the animals. This is like a death trap. This is like a gill net in the ocean. Just trapping animals every day. And then of course, the mass graves and the end game. Babies starving when their moms are shot by helicopters. So now DLNR wants to eradicate our pua'a. Our pigs, our sustenance, our culture. And people mention this already in the Hawai'i Revised Statutes that aerial eradications of any type or any aerial shooting is illegal. DLNR response is that they can do it when it's proper and effective. Well, how they got around that is through administrative rule and how many of you heard or had any input on this? I have asked old timers for the last thirty years `cause they've been shooting from helicopters for thirty years and nobody ever heard of anything. So through the administrative rule all they got to do is go to the Board... Land and Natural Resources, the Attorney General, wham, bam it's done and they can do whatever they want. They don't have to follow the... their own laws. Okay, the key word in... in the endangered species act is the taking. Okay. And why this word is so important is `cause the taking was to harass, harm and everything, right? This is what they used to do the Palila versus DLNR. They manipulated these words because... a sheep doesn't eat a... a bird. So it wasn't a direct effect, yuh. So they used the word the taking. A taking is very important because this is what's happened... this is what the DLNR is doing right now with the palila bird. Okay... report to Congress... okay, this is a over flights affects... okay... this is public law. Also the U. S. Fish and Wildlife also has their own... for endangered species and 4 over flights is you know... helicopters, anything flying over National Parks, endangered critical habitats and so forth. Some of the biggest concerns is reproductive losses. And this is what's happening. The reason I'm talking about this is because in the past two years, they've increased aerial eradication to four time a year, two days. So that's about sixteen hours... you know, each time... to two days in a row and then a few months later again and again. And they're flying over the critical habitat at treetop level. So the birds... the disturbed birds... and they're flying away from the aircraft, they're leaving their eggs and young exposed. Birds that flush quickly are damaging the eggs, kicking the young off the nest... and just to give you and idea of what the helicopters sounds like... I got this from our guys in Kona. But it's... I can't find the darned cursor in here... where are you? Oh, shucks. Now this is from several hundred feet away now. They're flying thirty feet over. At higher elevation they have to rev the engines up because there's not enough air mass to keep the plane going so these are running balls out. They're bringing the carcasses down. And this is the muffled... sound right now. If any of you've been in the military you know. And you can see how high above the treetop. When they're looking for the... they're flushing the sheep out, they're flying at treetop level... blowing air horns. Because the sheep are hiding under the trees. So you're over a critical habitat of critically endangered species and you're blowing horns, the prop wash, everything. And this is what's happening. Habitat avoidment... right here. The animals are avoiding. They're... they're abandoning their nests and they're not coming back and the young are dying. And even they're alarmed at... observations by refugee (inaudible) suggest that endangered species in Hawai'i underutilize a sizeable portion of its critical habitat because of low altitude military aircrafts. This is old news. This is 1987. So it's funny how this data... it doesn't... it says palila birds are abandoning their nests at alarming rate. Population has dropped seventy percent... since 2008. And that's when they started flying four times a year. So my question for Chairman Willie Aila is that he may think that it's proper and effective, but I wonder if the Endangered Species Act thinks it's proper and effective. Okay... and here's over flights again. The manner which indirectly causes harm. Now this is the lawsuit. They were able to sue the State and get rid of the sheep because of this. The manner which indirectly causes the loss of an endangered bird over its time is so... so clearly a taking... Palila versus DLNR was the case. It makes it clear that no intent to cause harm to endangered species is needed. They didn't even have to prove that harm was being done to get the lawsuit to do that. The DLNR can be doing what they're doing right now, driving this species into extinction, and everybody supports it because it's an effective tool. Okay. Right here... Sierra Club and the U. S. Fish and Wildlife, they're criticizing the Army `cause the Army is doing... they want to do landing flights over Mauna Kea, which flies over the critical habitat. Okay... State workers concerned over the effects over flights will have on the palila critical habitat. So they're worried about the military flying two thousand feet over the critical habitat, but they're not concerned about aerial eradication flying thirty feet over it. So what is this have... impact is having? Well this is what's happening... extinction rate. As you can see as aerial... the increase in helicopters and the transition between the declining sheep, the... the palila bird is relatively steady from 1980's to 2000 or so. Fluctuated between five and three thousand. And after helicopter flights increased, even commercial helicopters... because they... when they're doing maneuvers... I checked at PTA, when they're doing maneuvers they 5 can't fly over the military base and the only place they can fly over is the critical habitat... and when it's clouds... I work up the mountain for twenty years. I'm up there every day. And when there's clouds, they got to fly below the cloud level. Which is only a... ;you know... hundred feet or so. Sometimes above this... this area. And... you know... it's thousands of flights a year, yuh. So it... okay. So they use the helicopters to eradicate ungulates from the critical habitat is scaring off adult palila from their nests, causing direct harm to the nestlings. The strong wind from the propeller wash, helicopter noise and the use of air horns are startling sheep out from the mamane trees. It's also causing the adult palila to abandon their nests, the young are left to die in the cold or fall to predation. And balance... a harmonious arrangement. And do not expedite the (inaudible) or our game animals. And a need for a game reserve. This is something Hawai'i has never had. They can take lands out of use, they swap a hundred acres to make the Saddle Road by pass for ten thousand acres of ranch land and twenty-five million dollars for a palila habitat. That's a mitigation area. They using only fourteen hundred of that ten thousand acres. If they can do that, why can't they give us ten thousand or twenty thousand acres to have a game reserve. And we can have a place to hunt. We can remove some of these problem areas with animals and we can still maintain our species that we have here. And then my conclusion is... I recommend that Hawai'i County and Council, State, the DLNR has an immediate cease and desist on all aerial eradication until such time that a full investigation and proper field studies may be conducted. Aloha. Look how beautiful Hilo... 1942. Okay. » Thank you very much... thank you very much, Mr. Silvester. Council members, the motion on the floor is to close file on Communication 731.1. Any discussion? Seeing none, Madame Clerk, on the motion to close file. » Mr. Blas. » Aye. » Ms. Ford. » Aye. » Mr. Hoffmann. » Aye. » Mr. Ikeda. » Aye. » Mr. Onishi. » Excused. » Mr. Pilago. » Mr. Pilago, is that an aye? » Aye. » Ms. Smart. » Aye. » Mr. Yoshimoto. » Aye. » Chair Yagong. » Aye. » Chair Yagong, you have eight ayes. » Thank you. Motion passes. Council member Pilago, Bill 260, please. » Chair person Yagong, motion to approve Bill 260. 6 » Motion to approve... is there a second? » Second. » Second by Mr. Hoffmann. Discussion on Bill 260. Go ahead, Ms. Smart. » Thank you. I know... actually I guess that's kind of rude. I do know you introduced this so I don't mind giving you an introductory time, but I would like to be the first Council member to actually speak when we move into discussion. So if you would like to do an introductory... » Maybe what I can do is actually turn the Chair over to Mr. Pilago, our Vice Chair. So that I can speak first... if that's okay? » Let the record show I have assumed the Chair and Mr. Yagong, you have the floor. » Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Council members and members of the public and those that are viewing at home. I want to be very clear as far as what we're trying to do here in terms of trying to form a Game Management Advisory Commission. You know one of the things... there's so many things that are happening here in Hawai'i County, and it's happening very, very fast. And I'm not just talking about hunting and fishing, but I'm talking about other issues such as renewable energy and... and... and development and so forth. And... and... and it has come very clear to me, you know a lot of times many of the decisions that are made in regards to our island is not... is not made here... here in Hawai'i County. And that's when we begin to have the discussion of... of home rule. You know... being able to have people of Hawai'i County, people that live here, people that... that have to live with whatever impacts or decision that we make, have the people of the County of Hawai'i be those that in charge and being able to be part of the process and to give input. While we were doing this... this whole discussion, I saw a video on Big Island Video News. I got to tell you, it... it moved me immensely. And I would suggest many of you look at that video as well. It was a video that took place at Nani Mau Gardens. With the hunters... many of which are here in the room today. And they had a hunters' meeting and they were talking about all of their concerns and... and all the problems that they're facing. That they have been facing for years and years and years. And one of the thing that really touched me was when I had... and I saw Mr. Pat Pacheco as well as the other speakers come out and actually point towards our State Legislature people and point to them and tell them... tell them that you guys forgot about the people. The decision that are made in hunting and fishing that are made way off in... in O'ahu... in O'ahu, made with DLNR and the Board, and what you guys did as legislature... at the State Legislature, you have forgotten about the people... the people who have supported you... and we here in Hilo... we do not have a voice. We here in Hawai'i County, we do not have a voice. And I got to tell you, you know, I felt really bad when I saw that video simply because any time there's been an issue in regards to hunting, we simply say it's a State issue. We've always done that. It's... it's done by the State... the County doesn't have any jurisdiction. But listening to that video and watching that video made me realize that we here at the County level can no longer just sit back and relax and leave this thing to people in O'ahu making the decisions for the people here in the County of Hawai'i. The Pele Defense Fund at the same time was meeting with the hunters. And they have been meeting. They invited me to the meeting. I sat down at the table and listened to these people. I sat down at the table and listened to these hunters. This is not my idea, ladies and gentlemen. I'm not going to take credit for this. This came from the hunters. What they said was what we don't have, which every state in the United States has, is a game management advisory commission or a council that deals with game management. To be able to mange the game. To... to make sure that not only do we protect our natural resources, but at the same time make... make sure that we protect our traditional and cultural heritage. Hunting and fishing has been part of our heritage for hundreds and hundreds of years. I am old enough to remember when the sugar plantation went on strike and my family was a very poor family, if it wasn't for the hunters, for the smoked meat and the sausage and the fishermen from the... bringing fish from the sea... we would have starved. We would have starved. And my father always told me don't you ever forget... who take... who took care of the family when we had a hard time. It was those that learned and does live off the land and the ocean. And you know what, folks, when you think and... and when I went to this meeting it was so obvious what the people, the hunting community and the fishing community did not have is a voice. Is a voice in the process. Especially when the process is miles and miles away. Decision made by people that do not know our mountains, do not know our oceans, do not know our cultural and... and traditional heritage, and we got to stop that. And that's when Mr. Silvester and others... Mr. Griffiths... Mr. Pacheco strongly suggested that what we need to do is we need to have a game management plan and that's when this idea of doing a commission... that's going to be tied to a governmental entity, that'll be supported by the governmental entity, that has direct link to those of us, that has the capability and authority to produce legislation. And even legislation that we can pass on to our brothers at the State Legislature. Because decisions like this... folks... it's all about... it's all about policies, it's all about legislation. Having meetings in all the different places throughout the County is good and well, but if you have no voice, you have no legislation, I'll tell you what happen... you get pushed to the side. And that's why it is so important that we provide a voice for our local community... hunters and fishermen... and those that respect the re... the recreational traditions that we have and even those that respect the fact that although they may not be hunters, but in our Hawaiian culture in Hawaii... how many of you are not hunters but you know what... you get smoked meat in your freezer. From your hunting partners. You have fish in your freezer from your fisherman neighbors. I mean... I mean... and so it... it's not just for hunters. It's for all of us and I agree with all of the testimony that's come forth supporting this and... and Council members I hope that you... I hope that I have an absolute unanimous vote on this, because all this does, ladies and gentlemen, it puts this question of a Game Management Advisory Commission on to the ballot in November. Even if we don't approve it... even if it's approved by the County Council, it's the people of this island is going to be able to be the one to say yes, we believe this is important. I predict this gets on the ballot, it's going to pass... with flying colors. Because I think the people get it. The people understand. I ask my Council colleagues to support this because it's the right thing to do. But more importantly, I ask you to pass this so that we let the people of the County of Hawai'i vote on this so that the whole State of Hawai'i will know... that the people of this County believe that we need to protect sub... subsistence hunting. We need to protect subsistence fishing. And we need to protect our traditional and cultural gathering rights. Your vote today will do that. Thank... thank you, Mr. Chairman. » Thank you, Chair Yagong. Before I call on Council member Smart for comment, I do wish to ask Madame Clerk Jamae Kawauchi to inform me by voice, and let me know 8 who is the next Council member I should call... if that is okay. I do at this time ask Council member Smart to comment on Bill 260. » Thank you, Mr. Pilago and thank you, Mr. Yagong, for putting this forward. First I have to say... I'm... I must say I'm a little disappointed how this was brought forward. I first heard about it in the newspaper, and I think because it's such an important issue... sorry, Mr. Hoffmann, can you lean back? I can't see Mr. Yagong. I like to see people when I'm talking to them. I really felt that this really needed to have as much discussion as possible and I really think the appropriate place would have been committee. I'm not really sure why it got waived but that's just a problem I had. I was approached all weekend about supporting both this and the next bill. And I had no idea what they were really talking about because we didn't even get our e -boards e-mailed to us until Monday. So I didn't even have a chance to read this until Monday afternoon and I think one of the public members actually e-mailed me the link of the laser fiche and I was able to get a hold of it through the public before our own internal operations get us our own board. So, that's just a personal issue I, I have and I agree completely with Mr. Tim Rees, this is very important issue. I think it needed to be going through the committee level. I do agree that they're important. However, based on some of the conversations, I heard two things. One was insuring a balanced approach to this Commission and the other was it needs to be made up of all hunters. So I was kind of wondering where you were coming from? I'm assuming it's for all hunters. But I wanted to give you a yes or no on that one. Is, is, are you intending this to be all hunter and fishers from each district? » I, I strongly feel that the people have... Mr. Chairman, is that okay? » Ah, I'm sorry, yes, Mr. Chair, is that all right? » Thank you. Mr. Yagong to respond. » For me personally? I strongly believe that this commission is set up to provide a voice for the hunting and fishing community and I believe that the people that sits on this commission should be those that live here that has complete knowledge of our tradition and cultural gathering rights and are familiar with our, with our natural resources. Now, but with that said, Ms. Smart, the way that it's set up, it's set up like every other commission in the County of Hawaii, which is the Mayor selects and hopefully that's going to be me, but the Mayor selects, the Mayor selects and the Council confirms. So, you know, obviously, of course, that selection is important. But, I cannot, I cannot guarantee you right now that, that is what's going to happen unless I am the Mayor. » Well, thank you. And actually that was going to be my next point is, `cause there were some comments about it only being the Mayor doing the appointment. I did want to remind the public that there is the Council confirmation of that process as well. The other thing I noticed, in most commissions that I've been working with and, of course, I've mostly been working with the Environmental Management Commission, there's actually a meeting schedule written into the Code and I don't see that here. What is the intended meeting, I'm sorry, Mr. Pilago, can I direct another question to Mr. Yagong? » Proceed. » Thank you. What is the intended meeting schedule, once a month, once every quarter, once every other month? » The commission is to report to the County Council at least once, once a quarter. » I see that they're required to report. 9 » Right. They report, required and if, you know, in order to report you have to meet, right? But what it is is the amount of meetings we're going to allow that to be determined by the commissioners. At that time if they decide to meet once a month, which is 12 times a year they should do so. But I'm going leave that up to that commission. »You're right. I apologize. Even the Environmental Management Committee is, it's in the rules, not the Code or in the Charter, I apologize. That is correct. So going back to how the commission is being built, I understand how people wanted, some members wanted a balanced approach to the commission; but I think one of the testifiers, I think it might have been you, actually, mentioned, I don't know how to pronounce your name, I apologize, mentioned that conservationists and DLNR already have a really loud voice and this is providing the hunters a voice. And I can complete understand that, so I can support that concept. I'm curious on how this commission is going to interact with the various councils and commissions already set up around the island such as the watershed and the West Hawai'i Fishery Council. Are we going to have duplicative, duplicative efforts here? Are they going to be working against each other? Are they going to be working together? Are they going to be discussion back and forth? I, I guess I'm asking a little bit on how you intend this commission to work with existing entities to help develop these plans and implement it considering the numerous efforts that we have around the island and the State that are in existence today. Mr. Pilago, is that all right if I ask that. » Chair Yagong. » Thank you very much, thank you very much, Mr. Pilago. The commission will operate just like any other commission, which means you will have an agenda. An agenda is derived by whatever, whatever topics or issues are hot in the water at that time. For example, the DNLR has a rule coming down the pipe where they want to fence off, you know, 20,000 acres in Laupahoehoe. I would imagine that would be the topic that would come forward. Now, from there, would they interact with other departments? I would imagine they would. You know, but, I think it's going to, the, the, the, the commission is set up to be that platform and that avenue to be able to take in issues that affects wild, wildlife and, and the ocean, mountain and the ocean. So, yes, I do see them interacting with other advisory commissions; however, I expect this board to stand up on its own. And I expect this board to even bring their own issues to the table. Because, because it will be a public commission, it'll be an open session for the general public to come forward as well. So, they'd be advertising and people would be able to come and it won't be a closed meeting. So, I, I do expect a lot interaction. It's hard for me to tell you exactly how that would operate, but I think the main key right now is to be able to formulate the commission, get the commission up and running, have the people vote for it and many of those details would be worked out. But the main framework I think is here, which is to protect the interest, the cultural and traditional interest of subsistence hunting and fishing and also to, to protect our natural resources. » Okay, thank you, that's all I have for now, Mr. Chair. » Thank you, Councilmember Smart. And thank you, Chair Yagong. I wish at this time to indicate that it was waved out of committee and that was to facilitate the timing we would need should this move forward in its 3 required readings. We would need to allow the Clerk and her staff to craft the Charter amendment for inclusion onto this year's 10 ballot. So that was the reason for waving. At this time I would like to call on Councilmember Pete Hoffmann to give comment to Bill 260. » Yes, thank you, Mr. Pilago, I appreciate it. First of all I'm certainly in strong support of any type of a game management commission. I go back about 2 years ago when we had very contentious discussions regarding the protection of our near -shore marine resources, particularly on the West side of the island when we were talking about reef fishing, aquatic management, you, many of you may remember that. I'm sorry that the point wasn't made as strong then as it is right now, that says we do have a responsibility as far as I'm concerned as members of this Council, as elected officials, to protect and defend and to guard against the preservation and the use of our own near term or near shore aquatic resources. It's this particular issue, of course is framed more today I heard from hunters. I didn't hear one fisherman come in here. I didn't hear one marine related individual speak about this. But I got to tell you, we're missing the boat folks. Now I'm not going to try to juxtapose the advantages of hunting as compared to fishing. That, that isn't the issue. The issue is both need to be responsibly managed. I am not satisfied that DNLR has done that job adequately for the benefit of this island rather than the State. More importantly, I was a little bit put, put off by comments made by other members of the administration during the course of that long and somewhat heated discussion that we had 2 years when I sponsored the bills, it was a resolution actually, regarding the use of aquarium fisherman, fishing and so forth, in which I was told pointblank this is not the responsibility of this Council, this is a State responsibility. Now I got to tell you I disagree strongly with that type of a, of a statement and stand by any member of the administration or any future administration, enough is enough. I do not believe that the State has managed this in the best interest of the people of the County of Hawaii. And I do feel a responsibility as a member of this Council and I hope that's shared by other members of this, of this particular body, that we do have a responsibility to you, as the residents of this island and to ourselves in trying to make sure we maintain in some way, shape or form responsibility for the use of our own resources. Now, there are a number of different questions that I would have regarding the establishment of the commission. Let's remember though what this is. We're not even debating the efficacy, truly, we shouldn't be, of whether this is a good idea or not. The concept is, is there. The point is is whether we should allow you as the, as the people who are voting on this to determine whether it should happen or not. And I'd like to define or try to constrain a little bit the contentiousness of the issue and try to keep it focused on the idea we're not discussing whether it's the greatest thing in the world and all the details on how the commission should work. It's more important I think to say should you, as people of this island, have a responsibility or the right to determine whether the establishment of this commission should occur or not. I believe it should. And that's where I'd like to leave the discussion at this particular time. Thank you. » Thank you, Councilmember Hoffmann. Comments well taken. » A note... » Mr. Pilago. » Thank you, Councilmember Hoffmann. Of note, this is a first of 3 required readings. This amendment to the Charter amends Article 6, Chapter 9 by creating a new section. Therefore, it requires a two-thirds vote of the entire membership and that's required, a two-thirds vote is required to pass each of 3 required readings. That's pursuant to Section 11 15-1, Subsection A of the Charter. With that reminder, I give Chairperson Yagong the privilege of bringing us to the question. Thank you. » Mr. Pilago, we do have a couple lights on. Ms. Ford and Mr. Blas wanted to speak. » Thank you. I would at this time call on Councilmember Ford, followed by Councilmember Blas. » Thank you. I will be supporting the game management Charter amendment. Let me just say from the outside so people don't misunderstand me, I've often been accused of being an environmentalist, a conservationist of fish, preservationist of reef fish and a tree hugger, and these are all true, it's all true. But I was also raised in family where we ate venison. You know, I was raised with my father. All the men in my family hunt or used to hunt. So I do understand the nature of the need to hunt for people who need to sustain their families. Certainly in this economic downturn this is even more important. But this issue's been going on for decades. I like some of the ideas that came up today that I hope that the future commission, should this pass, would get them on, would get them on the table and talk about. I think a game reserve is excellent. What I saw with the goats hooking their horns in the fence, I was raised to call that hog wire. I don't know what you call it, is it hog wire? It's hog wire, okay. That's obviously a very unsafe, cruel, inhumane method of fencing an area. We also have some other problems and I think all of you hunters and fishermen need to be dealing with this. We're going to, if, if we pass this, get it on the ballot, and if the, if the community, all of us, vote to, to do this, the next step is dealing with our State Reps and Senators. And they're not listening. We sent, we, this Council, have sent various subjects, I won't go into them, we have sent legislation to the State and to the Hawai'i State Association of Counties and pretty much anything, almost everything gets ignored. Okay. I, I'm not hopeful on this because unless you get onto your State Senators and Reps that exist today, or are running for election and pin them down, make them swear in writing they're going to support this you got a problem. Because unless the State Reps change the laws at the State level, we're going to continue to have this problem. We got some evil letter, you know, saying, oh, it's a State issue, you can't do anything like this. We are going to put a stake in the sand here. This is what we're doing today, we're putting a stake in the sand. We need to do this. But it means that everyone of you is going to have to camp in the offices, get on the phone, send your emails and keep doing it through this election and make these people promise to support the people they're supposed to be representing. We (applause), I agree with Mr. Hoffmann, what this is about today is putting this on the County's ballot to let the people vote and then you guys are going to have deal with the State. We can deal with them to a certain degree, but we, you know, honestly they ignore us a lot, those radicals over in Hawai'i County. Well, we're not the radicals. So, I'm, I'm encouraging you all to continue the fight at the State level; but I will be supporting this. Thank you. » Thank you, Councilmember Ford. Councilmember Blas, your comment please. » Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I'm not a hunter but I strongly support this Bill 260. You know, we need a voice for the hunters and the fishermen in Honolulu, on the State level. And you know this is food putting in our table, you know, for all our community surrounding on this County. And I'm really, really supporting this thing and I'll do my best to try to talk to the State House of Representative in my district and the State Senator down there to help get this thing going, because it is a need not a luxury for, 12 especially with the times we're in right now. We need all the food we need to put on the table to feed our, our family. Thank you. » Thank you, Councilmember Blas. I wish at this time to give a comment to Mr. Sylvester; again thanking him for the presentation which is very, which is very graphic and moving. His recommendation to this Council to consider a cease and desist option, I wish to clarify with him that we should hold that off to make sure and not move, make sure we move 260 forward without any cloud. But that's just a recommendation. Are there any Council Members who wish to give comment to 260 at this time? » Vice Chair Pilago, this is Jamae, Mr. Yoshimoto and Chairman Yagong would wish to speak, please. » I wish at this time to call Councilmember Yoshimoto who will be followed by Chair Yagong. » Okay. Thank you Chairman Pilago. You know, first off, just to let everyone know you have my full support on this bill. I think it's a good bill. I just had some comments as far as the language here. I'm just putting on my, I guess, legal, legal hat as far as the clarity of it. The first part, and this is not an amendment, this is just a suggestion so I think can discuss this. It states here there shall be a Game Management Advisory Commission consisting of 9 members. Just food for thought here and this is not a must have, but maybe the better language would be representing each Council District because we don't know how many Council Districts there will be in the future if the island continues to grow, we'll have 10, 11 and so that kind of open-ended language which says each Council District would leave it more flexibility so that we don't have to amend the entire Charter, just in case in the future there's 10 Council Districts. So that's one suggestion. The other suggestion here, it says that one member shall be a resident of each Council District. It sounds kind of strange, one member shall be a resident of each Council District. You can't logically have one member, well, anyway, what I'm trying to say it should say, there should be a representative from each Council District on the commission or something like that so that's it's real clear for, for clarity purposes, you know, me I kind of look at things in more of that analytical way. But, otherwise, I support the bill. I think it's a good idea to put it to the vote. I would support this when it's on the, if it gets on the ballot as well. Thank you. » Thank you, Councilmember Yoshimoto, good points to consider. And if we should move on it at this passage then we would have time and room for the recommended amendments. Chair Yagong, you have the privilege of bringing us to the question, please. » Mr. Chairman, I'm ready to vote, thank you. » Let's go home. » Thank you, Chair Yagong, for your introduction. Again, a reminder that this Charter amendment requires 3 readings and 3 passages requiring a super majority of 6 votes. With that clear, Madam Chair, I'm sorry, Madam Clerk, if you would please read the roll. » Mr. Blas » Aye » Ms. Ford » Aye » Mr. Hoffmann » Aye 13 » Mr. Ikeda » Aye » Mr. Pilago. I'm sorry, Mr. Pilago. » Aye » Ms. Smart » Aye » Mr. Yoshimoto » Aye » Chair Yagong » Aye » Chair Yagong, you have 8 ayes. » Mr. Pilago's still the Chair » I'm sorry. » Thank you, Madam Clerk, Bill 260 moves to full Council in its Second Reading. Thank you for this passage. 14 Transcript of Bill 260 from the June 19, 2012, Council meeting: » Bill 260 initiates an amendment to the Hawaii County Charter, 2010, by amending Articles 6, Chapter 9, by creating a new section relating to a game management advisory commission. Creates a game management advisory commission consisting of nine members who shall be appointed by the mayor and confirmed by the council. This commission shall advise county, state, and federal agencies on matters relating to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing as well as protecting traditional and cultural gathering rights and also it sets forth other criteria. Introduced by Mr. Yagong, first reading June 6th, 2012. » Thank you. Vice Chair Pilago. » Thank you, Chair Yagong. Motion to approve Bill 260 at second of three readings. » Second. » Second, second by Ms. Ford. Discussion? Here in Kona, go ahead, Ms. Ford. » Thank you. I'm going to make some just generic comments about this. First of all I support this resolu...this bill. I support it. We do need a game management advisory commission and I want to for the public's benefit, I want to explain why it's going to have hunters, fishermen, and gatherers on this commission and not scientists. The scientists are supposed to be represented by DLNR. There are scientists that work for DLNR and that provide input to DLNR. And just for the record, I'm not against science. I was a biology major for a long time. And I'm also, I'll comment on the fact that I'm an environmentalist, a conservationist, and preservationist. So I take some exception to some of the things that have been said today. But with all of that the one thing that has not really been addressed here is that our mountains, all five mountains, anything below the mountain peaks, has to be a multifunctional situation. And by that I mean they have to serve, all of our land has to serve many people with different agendas. We cannot just say only the hunters or only the environmentalists. We have to share this island. With that said, and I do believe in fencing some areas and that there are areas that are inappropriate to have animals. However in this particular bill, 260, the game management advisory commission, our hunters have been left out of the process. My family hunts. Both sides of my family, both sides, my husband's family, have been hunters for a generation. I grew up eating venison in case some of you missed my last discussion. I believe in hunting and I believe that the hunters know more about hunting than anybody else. And I think that it's part of the culture here, the native culture. And also the nonnative culture. So I will support this game commission. I expect this commission to provide rules and suggestions to DLNR on how we ought to do this a whole lot better than we've been doing it. And I think these men and women will be able to do that. Whether or not DLNR is willing to listen to our commission is another issue and it's pretty sad that we're going through this. Let me just say that one of the testifiers commented on Bill 260 and 261 that Mr. Bill Aila (sp?) of, the head of DLNR, contacted the mayor in some fashion. I don't know if it was email or telephone or physically or satellite or ESP, I have no idea what the thing was. And I wanted to find out if that was correct, that the state was actually contacting our mayor and asking the mayor per the testimony to veto these bills. Because I find that offensive. I got, I had my staff get in touch with Bobby Command. He said he can't find anyone in the mayor's office to make a statement. The mayor is in a meeting and not available. And there is no one available to confirm the statement that was made. I had my 15 staff call back. We managed to reach Irma Sumera. This was just before 5 o'clock. No one is available. The mayor is attending a meeting offsite. So I cannot confirm or deny that Mr. Aila (sp?) has been in contact with our mayor or advocated to veto these bills. But I would hope that any mayor that we have on this island would not be taking directions from the state. We should be making our decisions here. I do believe in home rule. So these are some of the things just for the record. I'm going to vote yes on this. Some of the things I'd like to see this commission do. I'd like the wiring, the hog wire is out. I'd like to see very small wiring so the animals can't get trapped. I want to see of course no aerial hunting. That's another bill. I want to see some fenced areas to protect our endangered species. We've got to share this island. We've got to do what everybody wants. We've got to have a balance and I support that balance. But I will be supporting this bill. I think it's a good idea and I think it's time that everybody had a chance to have input, that no group should be left out of this. And so hunters, it's in your hands if this bill passes, and I think you'll do a good job, providing the right kind of information that we need to share our island. Thank you. » Anything else here in Kona before we go to Hilo? How about in Hilo? Any discussion out of Hilo? Seeing none, no on else here in Kona? If not, let me just say that I hope we get your support with this. Obviously we need six votes to pass this. This is a charter amendment which means if we pass this reading and the next reading, the third and final reading, then what happens is a question of setting up an advisory, game management advisory commission would then go to the voters in November. And the people of this island is going to make the determination of whether or not we should set up this commission or not. You know, I do believe that if it does get to the voters, that this will pass with flying colors you know from the feedback that we've received throughout this community. It's been all positive. And mainly it's because I think people that are born and raised here and people that have moved here that understand the importance of subsistence hunting and you know being able to put food on the table and to be able to pass on the tradition of hunting you know from generation to generation understands that the people or the hunting and fishing community of this island does not have a voice when it comes to establishing laws that affects you know our, our rights and gathering and cultural rights. So this commission is going to be a wonderful thing that allows the people that live here to be part of the process and certainly part of the legislative process that sets the rules. So I'm really hoping that I get unanimous support on this bill. Seeing no further lights, go ahead, Mr. Clerk. » Mr. Blas? » Kanalua twice. » Ms. Ford? » Aye. » Mr. Hoffmann? » Aye. » Mr. Ikeda? » Aye. » Mr. Onishi? » Aye. » Mr. Pilago? » Aye. 16 » Ms. Smart? » Aye. » Mr. Yoshimoto? » Aye. » Chair Yagong? » Aye. » Chair Yagong, you have nine ayes. » Thank you. Bill 260 passes second reading. 17 Transcript of Bill 260 from the July 3, 2012, Council meeting: » Bill 260 initiates an amendment to the Hawai'i County Charter, 2010, by amending Article VI, Chapter 9, by creating a new section relating to a game management advisory commission. Creates a game management advisory commission consisting of nine members who shall be appointed by the Mayor and confirmed by the Council. This commission shall advise County, State, and Federal agencies on matters relating to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing, as well as protecting traditional and cultural gathering rights, and also sets forth other criteria. This Bill was introduced by Mr. Yagong. » Vice Chair Pilago? » Thank you Chair Yagong. Motion to approve Bill 260 at third and final reading. » Second. » Seconded, seconded by Ms. Ford. Mr. Pilago, if you could, I'd appreciate it if you would take the Chair at this point and time? I'd like to be the first to speak on this particular Bill, please? » Let the record show I now assume the Chair. Proceed Mr. Yagong. » Thank you very much Mr. Pilago. First of all I want to thank my Council Members. Colleagues, this has been a very wonderful Bill that has come forward to the Council for consideration. It has brought forth much testimony as you all know, and I really appreciate your patience and understanding, and; but it was really wonderful because it had an opportunity for people to come forward and really express how important they feel that home rule is. That we take an issue such as subsistence hunting and subsistence fishing and begin to say that we here in Hawai'i County want to be part of the process that really dictates exactly what we feel is important to protect our, our, our natural resources, our, our culture, and our gathering rights and our heritage here in Hawai'i County. I want to make one thing absolutely clear, though, in regards to Bill 260. Although I am the author of this I will tell you that this Bill came from the hunters, you know. And we provided the, the opportunity and the avenue to do so. But this idea came from sitting around the table with a bunch of hunters that really expressed, you know, their vision as far as what they feel Hawai'i, the, the vision that Hawai'i County needs to go into, and expressed the frustration that they've had in really not being, not only, not part of the process but not having the voice that they feel they really, really need. Because if you take, you take a look at a group of people that have more vested in making sure that we protect our, our natural resources not only for today but for future generations. And when you hear them talk about these things it's never for themselves. 18 That's the thing that is so impressive of the people that I've had the honor to be in, in touch with in regards to this Bill. But they talk about not just, not themselves but for future generations. And it's just wonderful to be part of that that people that are looking towards the future and making sure that the Hawai'i we enjoy today is the Hawai'i that their children and their grandchildren, and, and generations after that will enjoy as well. And that is because we will take a step to make sure we direct how we feel our island should go in terms of protecting our resources. I do want to specifically; and, and I'm, and please forgive me, you, you; I get into trouble when I name peoples' names because there's always people that, that certainly deserve recognition, but I do want to thank Mr. Tony Sylvester. You know, I really appreciate Mr. John Griffiths, you know, and Mr. Pat Pacheco, your leadership on this has been absolutely phenomenal out in Kona. Mahalo to John Sabate [sp?] and Colin Onaka for what they've done. And most especially I want to thank the Pele Defense Fund because you want to talk about people that brought the entities together? It was that group. And if not for those folks to bring these people together this may not have been possible. So, [applause] lot of wonderful people involved. And last but not least let me just say thank you to all of those that have come out in support of this here. We had a gentleman out in Kona, brother told me he never voted in his life and he's never participated in his life. He came 8:00 in the morning and that guy stayed 'til 9:30 at night, so fascinated with the process, not just the hunting bill, it was the hunting bill that brought him to the meeting but it was the process that has opened up a lot of peoples' eyes where people are now paying attention and understanding that it's through legislation that people have a voice. So I'm very proud of that process. So, with that said, Mr. Chairman, I hope everyone continues to support this Bill 260. It's been said many times over it's historical, I believe it is. And I look forward to the people of this County having an opportunity to vote for putting together a game management advisory commission here on Hawai'i County. Thank you Mr. Chairman. [applause] » Thank you Council Member. Additional comments or questions? » Mr. Chairman? » Council Member Hoffmann, please? » Thank you Mr. Pilago. Ladies and gentlemen, I am in complete support of what this particular Bill is attempting to accomplish. But I'll tell you why I'm a little bit disappointed. I think we've been disappointed a little bit in the emphasis that's been taken here on hunting. I was recently beaten up over the head and shoulders a little bit by a whole group of people from my constituency that have made it very clear that there is a very strong and a very emotional issue attached to fishing. And this has been very much in the news at least in my district regarding subsistence fishing and the idea of preserving some areas along the Kohala coast. I think we failed to bring those people to the table 19 here although, trust me, they've been vociferous in their opposition to some of the DLNR issues that have been pending on their table regarding their, their subsistence fishing, and how we're to handle and preserve our near shore resources. I have been a persistent advocate as those of you who know regarding aquarium fishing and the need for self regulation, and the need for better relationships with DLNR and the West Hawai'i Fisheries agencies and organizations. And I'm hoping in some way, shape or form that when this becomes law, this particular Bill is passed finally, and we do have a commission that this Council and you, the constituents throughout the island, don't miss the point that this is not simply a hunting issue. And although the hunters maybe have brought this forward and I'm sorry to think I, in all the welter of controversy that we had over the aquarium issue about a year, a year and half ago, I didn't think enough to try to make this happen long before this time. I don't want the idea of aquatic life and our responsibility as a County for the preservation of our near shore marine resources to be overlooked. And on, up until this time they have been. I am particularly discouraged sometimes when I speak to Administration officials because I was beaten on the head and shoulders a little bit by the, by a member, a, a particular member of the Administration last year when I was accused of interfering with a State issue and wasting Council's time. I, I don't believe that. When we talk about hunting and fishing rights I believe it's very important that this Council takes a strong and an involved approach in how this is to be done. And I'm happy to think that Bill 260 at least provides us with the initial steps in that effort. So please hunters, I have nothing against hunting, please take me out and let me go with you some time, but please don't overlook the fact that we have a very strong constituency as well as a very strong responsibility to make certain that our near shore marine sources are protected and are used in the manner in which they're supposed to be. Thank you. [applause] » Thank you Council Member Hoffmann. Should Bill 260 be approved, we look at it as a, being a nexus for your aquatics and fisheries issues. And we'll certainly consider that at that time. Thank you again. Council Member Ford, you have the floor. » Thank you. And Mr. Ikeda will be after me? » Thank you. » Okay. Because we never know who's going to watch the video on television at any time, I'm going to go on the record again with my position. First I'll tell you that I am a conservationist. I am a preservationist. I am an environmentalist. And I don't take any offense at somebody who wants to object to me on that basis. However, I also come from a hunting family; both sides in my family, and my husband's family also hunt. Or, or at least used to when they were younger. I believe there's a middle ground here between those who want to fence everything in sight and those who need to have everything open for hunting. I believe there's a middle ground. And I'm hoping this 20 commission is going to find that middle ground. And I keep telling the individuals of the hunting community that I talk to, I want you to find the middle ground, I want you to have good rules. I come from a State with game management; it works, you know. I won't go in all the details because I'm not a hunter myself. I can, I can just barely get over smacking spiders around, but, you know, that's; but I'm a carnivore, I like to eat it. I was raised on venison. So, you know, buffalos great too. Elks is fabulous. [laughter] Anyway,... » Spiders? » I don't like spiders, I; my husband has to deal with them. Anyway; and that's stupid because, you know, they're just another animal on the earth. But anyhow, long story short, I'm going to be supporting the Bill, you all know I'm going to support this Bill. We need this Bill, and I'm very, very, very frustrated with the DLNR and its attitude toward our off, our near shore waters. I've been supporting that. Of course I support a total ban on aquarium fish collection. So that's my pitch for you guys. I think that absolutely no aquarium fish collection in our waters. But, that's up to the commission to come up with something for that. I want really good rules by this commission. I want them so good that hopefully the whole State will stand up and say, that's what we want in all the other County's too, but certainly in this County. My frustration with DLNR's, they've been treating our island some of, as their own hunting preserve, a private hunting preserve for DLNR to come over here and just slaughter things. And I can't stand it. We've tried very hard as a Council to tell 'em we don't want that. I understand when we're being overrun with particular groups of animals that they have to be, have their populations reduced. But the thought of wasting all that meat when we have people who are starving is unacceptable certainly to this Council. I know it is to me. And I think you're going to get a unanimous vote today. But we can do better and we need to show them how we can do better. And that's what I expect from this commission. I'll be voting yes. » Thank you Council Member. Council Member Ikeda, you have the floor. » Thank you Mr. Chair. You know, I too support this Bill. The reason I support this Bill is because it's a very good starting point. Right now there's nothing. By forming this advisory commission you will have a voice. Now you have a voice where you can sort of have the State listen to you, especially DLNR because this is an advisory commission of the County. And, you know, this is a good starting point for the home rule also. So, I really believe in this Bill. It; I think it's a correct Bill. And Mr. Hoffmann, in your defense, I heard many of the speakers say they also support fishing also, so this is something I wish you guys would also consider. With that, again, I will support this Bill. Thank you. [applause] » Thank you Council Member. Additional comments or questions? 21 » Yes, Mr. Chairman. » Council Member Yoshimoto, you have the floor. » Thank you. You know, in Pete's defense, I think he still looks pretty good after being beaten up. [laughter] After being beaten up a lot. But, no, no; you know, he talked about an issue the, you know, that we've addressed several times before and I'll know we'll, we'll address it again. But getting back to this issue, you know, the hunters have my full support. I think this is one of those issues that really shows that we want and support home rule. You know, this County Council is the closest to the people. We appreciate the people coming out because, you know, you're taking out your time to come forward and tell us and express to us what's important to you. And, you know, our job is to listen to the people, and we'll be doing that. Thank you. [applause] » Thank you Council Member. Additional comments please? » Mr. Chairman? There's no lights here, so if I could just maybe end the discussion by, by doing something very brief? Is that okay? » It's Chair Yagong and take us to the question. » Very good, thank you. And, and because there's some discussion in regards to this being a hunters bill, I just wanted to make very clear for those people that did not get a chance to see the, the language of the Bill, so I'll just read a very, just one paragraph of it, Section 6-9, game management and advisory commission. This is the law should the Council pass this that will be brought forward before the people to vote on in November, and hopefully becomes a, a, a certified commission after that. The language is, is this here; for the benefit of present and future generations, a game management advisory commission shall advise County, State, and Federal agency on matters related to the preservation of subsistence hunting and fishing, as well as protecting traditional and cultural gathering rights. The commission may also advise County, State, and Federal agencies on any matter affecting the taking and conservation of aquatic life and wildlife including proposed rules, and shall communicate its findings and recommendations to these agencies. The commission shall promulgate recommendation that conserve and protect the natural and cultural resources of Hawaii in furtherance of the self sufficiency and long term subsistence sustainability of aquatic life and wildlife in Hawai'i, in the County. The commission shall provide reports or legislative recommendations to the Council as necessary or at least quarterly. So I just wanted to make sure that people do know that the language includes both hunting and fishing. And I do agree with Mr. Hoffmann's concern, but I will tell you that I, I have been in contact with many fishermen that have contacted me again thanking this Council for bringing this forward and making sure that it's also hunting and aquatic life; they totally support this. So, with that Mr. Chairman, I see no lights here in Hilo. So, thank you, Sir. 22 » Thank you, Sir, for that clarification. A note before the question; this is the third of three required readings, and a two-thirds vote of this entire membership is required to pass each reading. This is pursuant to Section 5, Section 15-1, subsection A, of the Hawai'i County Charter. We have on the floor a motion to approve Bill 260. Madam Clerk, please read the roll. » Mr. Blas? » Aye. » Ms. Ford? » Aye. » Mr. Hoffmann? » Aye. » Mr. Ikeda? » Aye. » Mr. Onishi? » Aye. » Mr. Pilago? » Aye. » Ms. Smart? » Aye. » Mr. Yoshimoto? » Aye. » Chair Yagong? » Aye. » Chair Yagong; excuse me, Chair Pilago, you have nine ayes. » [applause] Thank you Madam Clerk. Bill 260 is carried. 23