HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-11-18 Regular Session MinutesHAWAII COUNTY BOARD OF ETHICS
MINUTES — REGULAR SESSION
Tuesday, September 11, 2018
10:01 a.m. to 12:01 a.m.
Hawai `i County Building
25 Aupuni Street
County Council Chambers
Hilo, Hawai`i 96720
Members and Staff Present:
Ku Kahakalau, Chair
Kenneth Goodenow, Vice -Chair
Nan Sumner -Mack, Member
David Wiseman, Member
J Yoshimoto, Deputy Corporation Counsel
Emily Hirayama & Maria Pagala, Secretaries
1. CALL TO ORDER (10:00 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau:
Aloha Kakahiaka. Good Morning. I'd like to call the meeting for
the Board of Ethics County of Hawaii for September 11, 2018 to
order at 10:00 sharp.
2. STATEMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC ON AGENDA ITEMS (10:00 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau:
We will start with statements from the public on agenda items,
however it does not appear like there are any. So we will move
right along to number 3 on the agenda which is the approval of the
regular session minutes of August 14, 2018.
3. APPROVAL OF THE REGULAR SESSION MINUTES OF AUGUST 14, 2018
(10:01 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau:
I believe everybody got those minutes in their packets. If there any
questions or discussion maybe after the motion we can do that.
Whoops I forgot for you folks to introduce yourselves. I'm sorry.
Before we start I'm sorry. Short agenda I wanted to go through.
I'm Ku Kahakalau, I'm the Chair of the Hawaii County Board of
Ethics and then...
Mr. Goodenow: Hi, Ken Goodenow, Vice -Chair.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Nan Sumner -Mack.
Mr. Wiseman: And David Wiseman.
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Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Sumner -Mack
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Thank you. So do we have a motion in regards to these minutes
before we start any discussions?
So moved.
I'd like to ask if we were...was I supposed to get a pdf that I
overlooked about of the Charter relevant Charter amendment?
Right I think that was mentioned in the minutes whether it was
done or not I don't know but just to approve the minutes. I think
the minutes do accurately reflect that.
Okay.
I'll second the motion at this point but we can have further
discussion.
So now that we have a motion and a second. Yes there was a pdf
that was sent out I think I got it yesterday. If I'm not mistaken.
That kind of...was referred to in the minutes.
We emailed the code section for the gift provisions that was
discussed last time. But I didn't email the Charter because the
Charter is in your binders.
Sorry I overlooked it. So what was sent by email? I overlooked it
so.
That pertained to a question I guess in general that the Board had
in terns of the gift provisions how the County accepts gifts but
that's not on the agenda today.
Would you like us to resend that? Do you think you didn't get it?
I'd like to know who sent it so I can look it up. It's easier to look
up in my email. What's your first name?
Maria Pagala.
I'll check with you.
Right the minutes do reflect what they reflect though right. Okay.
Right. Got you.
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Ms. Kahakalau:
Any further discussion in regards to the minutes? Hearing none.
Should I wait a little more? No...okay. All in favor of approving
the minutes of August 14, 2018 say aye. Any opposed? Okay so
that motion is carried. Thank you very much. Our next agenda
item is new business item 4a.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Wiseman moved to approve the minutes. Mr. Goodenow seconded.
All members voted ayes.
4. NEW BUSINESS (10:05 a.m.)
a. Communication dated August 1, 2018 from Chair Douglas Shipman Adams.
Seeking Input for the Hawaii County Charter Commission.
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Discussion with the Charter Chair Mr. Douglass Shipman Adams
regarding his communication dated August 1, 2018.
Move to file I guess.
I see Mr. Adams here. Do we have any questions for him would
we like to...please come up and...
I'd like to start and I wanna thank the Charter Commission for
coming to us to ask for input and everyone else. You've got a big
task. Perhaps the most important commission in the County. So
good luck with your work. I had a few comments. I don't know if
this is the right time or would you like to speak first?
Mr. Adams: Let me just say a couple of words is that okay.
Mr. Goodenow: Great.
Mr. Adams: You can hear me? I did press it. First of all thank you for inviting
me. As you know the Charter Commission meets essentially every
ten years. It's our attempt within the...can you hear is it good?
We meet every ten years. The purpose of which is to take a look at
our essentially county's framers document the County Charter.
And in doing so we wanted to make sure that we had an
opportunity to hear from all who are listed in the Charter. Of
course the Board of Ethic has its own section in the Charter...
Article 14 and see if there was...give everybody the opportunity.
Departments, council, boards and commissions, the opportunity to
reflect on the things that perhaps they've seen. Whether
experiments that were tried previously need to be changed or
whether everybody's pretty happy with the status quo as we move
forward. So that was really the intent of the missive that we sent to
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Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
you and I am at your service to answer any questions that you may
have and any comments that you may have. I have a copy of
the...you know essentially its 2 1/2...3 pages...I guess 2 1/2 pages or
so. Sections 14...1 through 14.6 of the code and so I'd be happy to
look at any of those and be interested in your comments if you
have any.
Thank you very much. We have a two...well concerns...he calls
them concerns so I will call them concerns as well. From one of
our members, Mr. Rick Robinson, who couldn't be here today...
he's out of the country. And if it's alright I would like to read
those for the record. The first point being and he asked us to share
those with you. First point being...the Ethics Board should receive
disclosure statements from politicians, senior county management
officials and from special contract individuals...that's the part that
he's highlighting. The special contract individuals hired under
none bid contract for county work. So that is his first concern.
Getting those disclosures statements from politicians, senior
county management officials, as well as special contract
individuals hired under none bid contract for county work. And
his second concern is that special contract issued by the Mayor
should be forwarded to the Board of Ethics as a matter of business
for review prior to issuance. That review should include a
justification of why this contract is being issued. So that was again
Mr. Rick Robinson who is one of the members of the Board of
Ethics. These were his two concerns that he asked us to share with
you.
Just add one little bit to that cause I know Mr. Robinson mentioned
this at the other meeting. Is that...I know if you look at the
Charter section 14-3. Under the disclosure of interest provision
there it says it shall be incumbent upon all employees or officers of
the County to make full disclosure in writing to the appointing
authority or to the council and the case of an elective officer.
These interests and file a disclosure with a County Clerk shall be a
matter of public record. It's not really clear. I think about how we
do that and Mr. Robinson for example said well...if a County
elected officer it gets put there for the public yes but in the charter
it also states that the board is...you know to interpret the code and
do these things and shouldn't we be looking at it. I mean we look
at the other ones that get sent to us right and we...I don't know
how. We at least see if there's discrepancies or we want more
information we do that...but we don't do that with these and
maybe we should as it does relate to the Code of Ethics.
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Mr. Adams: Just so I understand when you say "these" you're talking about
those special contract or politicians...
Mr. Goodenow: No. Just the disclosure of interest.
Mr. Adams: Okay.
Mr. Goodenow: Right the disclosure of interest forms.
Ms. Kahakalau: Judge Wiseman, you had a comment?
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah. Well I concur with what Ken stated with respect to the
language and the statute of officers and employees of the County.
My concern would be in I think elected officials are surely
included in that group. But my concern would be what... is there
any provision or procedure at the end of the year are periodically
for an office in the government to check and see among all the
employees and others required to submit a disclosure statement
who has not by a certain deadline. In form of a governments I've
worked in...yes is a public auditor who has control. He would
come up with a list, a deadline, and then there's a fine after that
deadline if they didn't submit, etc. So I'm not aware of any
provision here that would have that check or not.
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Goodenow:
Right. I think there is in the code. I think we are the responsible
party except for candidates running for office. Is that...could you
refresh my memory on that? Mr. Yoshimoto.
You were doing great Mr. Goodenow. We touched upon this I
believe the last time. So the County Code specifies specific
procedures pertaining to this clause of filing financial disclosures
right so office employees, certain boards. Whereas the public
officials, their disclosures are filed with the Clerks office so we
don't review them as a matter of course as opposed to...so the
code basically sets forth the criteria. If that wants to be changed,
that's a different matter because...if the question is directed at the
Charter, the Charter is more this broad view of what general
parameters we want right?
I think the question was...do we have the authority to review the
elected officials' disclosure...even though they're public. Do we
have any authority and that's why I thought maybe it'd be relevant
to the Charter. I know Mr. Robinson...I'm just speaking for Rick
who couldn't be here but I know that was a concern for him.
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Mr. Yoshimoto: Well so do you have the authority? I don't recall there being an
explicit provision as to the public official. So you're correct.
Mr. Goodenow: Correct.
Mr. Yoshimoto: So if you want clarity, then that's something that could be
clarified. The question of whether it needs to be in the charter in
the code...I mean that's really...a decision that...
Mr. Goodenow: Right. Well I leave that to you. That's a policy kind of thing too
right?
Mr. Adams:
Well actually if we had this conversation surely. So the way our
rules work on the Charter Commission is that the Commissioners
themselves will be making the proposals right? But the proposals
can come from and we anticipate that they'll come from a variety
of sources and so as you...if you would like to provide a little bit
more for example clarity on making more explicit the authority of
the Board of Ethics in reviewing the disclosure of interest forms.
There's nothing that prevents you from adding that as a charter
item. What we'll look at and as we have discussed at the Charter
Commission already is...Is this a charter item or is this a code
item. For example, if it falls into those kinds of silos. But
authority of course is a big picture kind of thing so you would
anticipate that that might be something that would be considered at
a Charter level perhaps. I don't make those decisions that's the
entire Commission of course it will review that.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I'm afraid that I. When I read this idea from Mr. Robinson, I
thought he was mainly speaking about item 2...the special
contracts provisions and that I thought that was related to
something that came up recently in our deliberations about. I don't
know if you call it a sole source or special contract that doesn't
comply with all the rules about you know getting bids and that sort
of thing. So I don't know whether this would apply to the charter
or to the code. I'm not an attorney, but anyway. Does anyone else
have that impression that it was dealing a lot with that?
Mr. Goodenow:
Kind of related to that...I'm sorry I digressed just a bit...but I
don't know what Mr. Adams would like from us and I'm not sure
what we'd like to give to him but you know there's two ways I see
this. One is we can just share hey this is our experience. I read
this section disclosure of interest is not clear and just give you
some ideas of what we're thinking or we could formally have our
Chair write a letter and put things in it and we could have a
subsequent meeting where we have a draft you know and discuss
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Mr. Adams:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Adams:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
that. I don't know what other departments are doing or what you
prefer in that regard.
What we prefer?
Change that question. I withdraw that question. What can you live
with?
What we can live with is we can live with any of that. Right? So
I'm taking notes now because you guys are bringing these things
up. But at the same time, if you as a Board decide you're gonna
send a communication to the Charter Commission...that's gonna
be taken with little bit probably more...I wouldn't say
consideration but gravitas perhaps. Then simply my notes on what
you have said. Ultimately whatever comes will be...if it is deemed
important enough it will be put into a proposal and then the Charter
will have a conversation about it.
And to narrow it down. What were we talking about in number 1
of the request is for elected officials, isn't it?
Well that was 1.
And at this time we don't review those.
Right. And then the other one was the second issue of the
contracts.
Right.
And there we had kind of...I don't want to say differing opinions
but we had some concerns with the disclosure and the timelines
that these contractors have to work under especially if it's an
emergency situation like let's say there's a storm and something
has to happen quickly because half of Hilo is under water. You
know then to have to go through these multiple steps before work
can begin is kind of to me unrealistic. I can see the theory of it and
the intent of it as you know as being important just so that there is
transparency. But sometimes with these particular groups...these
special contract individuals...it is done in sort of an emergency
kind of a situation so that's just putting that out there.
I would reiterate my statement at the last meeting with respect to
what I deem as a sole source contract which would fit the
circumstances you presented. And I would reiterate that there is a
presumption of validity that they have gone through and again I
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don't know what the code provides or the regulations for the
Mayor's office or any department here to issue a sole source
contract. But I would...I'm not a gambling man, but I would make
a bet that there are steps and procedures including public notices in
all sorts of steps and anyone can come in and challenge it and so
on. So I am...I am opposed against us reviewing a special contract
in number 2. And to weigh in on the justification for that. I mean
these justifications that are... I'm very familiar with it cause...as
one of my special calendars as a judge was all administrative
appeals. You know majority of them were all procurement issues
and sole source contracts. But in my experience, these sole source
contracts, all these steps they go through. There's numerous
justifications in there...you can't get a sole source contract in any
civilized government without having a justification. A good one.
Not just a...some blanket provision. So these steps are all in there.
And for us to take the position that we wanna look at these before
issuance. I think is creating a very unnecessary layer of
bureaucracy, red tape and delay. And I don't see any need for
our...and who are we to weigh in on the justification. Especially
most sole source contracts have a specific specialty, specific
professions or skills or experience in the government where there's
public works or computers or something. And we don't have that
expertise among us. So for all those reasons plus a lot more I
could go on with. I'm against number 2 on the proposal. Number
2.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: But the...could we just ask for the Charter Commission to consider
this because we found out through a case that came before us
recently that there were 14 such contracts issued by the County and
that seemed to be a huge number. So I think...I think that was Mr.
Robinson's basic concern that at least there should be you know a
paper trail and give us a chance. I don't know how is best to do it
but for the count maybe the Charter Commission could consider
whether some other body could be...
Ms. Kahakalau: Mr. Goodenow and then Judge...
Mr. Goodenow:
Yeah. I just note that you know when you look at the current
provisions of the charter that...except for...there are standards
about conflict of interest and financial gain and all that. But
there's nothing really in here about contracts such as the new code
that we had and July where these contracts they gotta get clearance
by us. It's not really there and I think what it says that you know it
shall constitute a conflict of interest...just so...solicit, accept gifts,
or use your position in these things that would cover a sole source
contract gone bad for example. And that would fit in the current
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charter and we could still do all that. I'd be a little leery of adding
in these...you know...we don't have all that other contract stuff in
the charter that's more for the code in my opinion. And it might be
in another section of the charter for...under financial operations or
something. I don't really...I think our code would cover that
situation of a quid pro quo or something. I'll just throw that out
there.
Ms. Kahakalau: Thank you Mr. Goodenow. Judge Wiseman.
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Adams:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
I would just point out the 14 cases that my colleague pointed out.
We were made aware of them because of a challenge to one of
those contracts. And that's how the system works. I mean if
something...if it smells, someone's gonna smell and bring it to
someone's attention, most likely us, so that's...that's my position.
Yeah so...I read both concerns because I was asked to do so. But
I'm also of the opinion that the special contract individual, because
of the nature of their work, should really not have to go through an
extra step when lives could be at matter or property could be in
danger and etc. So that's my personal opinion as well. But it is
something you know if the Charter Commission feels that that's in
their area and they would like to discuss it you know, it did come
up as a suggestion by one of our members.
Thank you I mean I appreciate the discussion in the different areas.
Do we have any other wisdom to say?
Well no. Well that was Rick. For me, the one thing I wanted to
talk about was...well the most important would be...and I don't
know if we have to do it but if you look at section 14-6 it gives
penalties, failure to comply with provisions of the charter
there...shall constitute a cause for suspension, removal from office
or employment, or other such penalty as the council may prescribe
by ordinance. So it sounds kind of open. The reason I bring it
up...doing civil fines...and I notice in the other counties' charters.
Let me just read to you from Honolulu... Make sure I get this
right. Honolulu. They put in penalties. "The failure to comply
with or any provision of the standards of contact established by
this article of the charter or by ordinance shall be grounds for
impeachment of elected officers and for the removal from office or
from employment of all other officers, employees. The appointing
authority may upon the recommendation of the ethics commission
reprimand, put on promotion, demote, suspend, discharge"...for
violating right? "The ethics commission may also impose civil
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fines established by ordinance for violations of the standards of
conduct committed by elected and appointed officials", etc. So
they actually put it in there and they also put in again in another
section. "The commission may impose civil fines established by
ordinance against elected and appointed officers and employees of
the city with significant discretionary or fiscal power found by the
commission to have violated the standards of conduct." And in
Maui...similarly...they put in... I won't go too much but Maui and
Kauai have the same thing. Maui... Actually Maui is interesting,
listen to this. "The Board of Ethics shall consist of nine members."
The boards shall and it lists things and "b. initiate impeachment
proceedings against elected officers and officers appointed to
elective office who are found by the board after investigation to
have violated this Article." I don't know if we want to go that far
but wow. They have a whole new... And that's policy, right? I
don't wanna make recommendations as to that. I'm just throwing
it out there. We...the council has said we want to have our
violations civil penalties. I don't know. Maybe we don't need it
when I read ours, it's broad but all the other counties do it I think
you should look at that. And related to that... You know so you
remember being on our Board right? People would come to get an
informal advisory opinion and the question is...oh well if they do
that I think it's in the code... it says right that they are presumed
that yes too and acted in good faith or whatever. I don't know if
that's in our code. But the other charters, some of them actually
put that in there. And I think the problem is...even if it's in the
code or its precedent right? That if you get it we don't do
anything. What if you violate a charter provision? Well
then...right...would we really if we gave an advisory opinion and
said oh, this is okay. And I mean unlikely that this would happen
but let's say it turns out a subsequent board said...hey you violated
the charter and you know they say...hey it doesn't matter right.
Would they really be protected? I don't know if we want to go
there, but I note the other charters include language. For
example...ah let's see. Sorry I ran out of post it notes and then I
started bending pages...that never works good. Well "if any
office, employee or former office employee shall obtain an
advisory opinion from the board and shall govern oneself
accordingly shall act in accordance with the provisions...opinions
of the board. Such person shall not be held guilty of violating any
provisions of the code." That's actually in their...the Code of
Ethics meaning the Charter Code of Ethics. That's the Charter of
Kauai. Another similar provisions. Maybe we don't wanna put
that in there. What do we...refresh my memory Mr. Yoshimoto.
What do we...cause people have asked that right? They think if I
get an opinion and I'm okay, then I'm protected right?
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Mr. Yoshimoto:
Generally, yes but then normally the orders will specify that you
still need to be in compliance with the code. I other words, did
they change the facts and circumstances...I don't know. You're
talking about in the past we had contracts that were bid for and
they had to go through the Board of Ethics right?
Mr. Goodenow: Right.
Mr. Yoshimoto: There's always the caveat that provided that the things don't
change because sometimes they do so. 1 mean generally yes...we
would honor previous...
Mr. Goodenow: We say that in the...and as long as you follow this and it doesn't
change...
Mr. Yoshimoto: In those particular opinions that is my recollection but generally
yes it's they'd obtain an opinion and the things remain the same.
You know then they've gotten the approval from the board because
the board is empowered to make those opinions. So we would
stand behind them of course...if things change in the future or...
Mr. Goodenow: Right.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Or somehow right I mean. It depends.
Mr. Goodenow: I guess this might be highly technical but...
Mr. Wiseman: With respect to one suggestion for the Charter Commission is that
you know there's many goals, regulations and even laws on the
books of many, many jurisdictions that require something. Must
file this document within 30 days. And the question I would
always keep in mind is, "or else what?" It has to be an "or else".
It comes in with the penalty provision. If there's no penalty. I've
had situations like that. They didn't file...okay...they didn't file.
There's no "or else what"? There is no penalty. Just a suggestion.
Mr. Goodenow: Thank you. I agree with that.
Ms. Kahakalau:
Well since we are sort of on that subject and you have to excuse
me because I'm not quite sure if it's a code issue or a charter issue.
But we've had over the past...I've had individuals coming in front
of the Board and I'm just gonna put it broadly saying wasting our
time. I could explain it in many other words but I think you know
what I'm talking about and there's the same thing you know. If
it's clearly unsubstantiated and it happens the same...multiple
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Mr. Adams:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Adams:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
times and things like that. Is there any kinds of provisions and I
wouldn't again know if it's a charter or code thing. But same
thing, you know that "so what" if those kind of things happen that
it's... That situation happens if that's something you could look
into. I think that would be something that could strengthen the
way that this Board operates. You know if we're protected let's
say or cushioned against that kind of practice.
So if I may, Madam Chair, let me just ask...follow one question to
that. You're talking...what I hear you talking about is what others
had talked about is frivolous petitions.
Yes.
Typically if you're going to at least in my experience and others
have different experiences I'm sure. But in my experience, if you
want to tackle that in the charter and maybe even in the code. That
means that you are potentially narrowing your...narrowing the
ability for folks to make petitions. Question is...is that your
intent?
That's a very good question. Not...oh sorry go ahead.
No I was just going to say maybe not the intent exactly but a way
that if they're going to be rejected anyway to streamline the
process. But I don't know...I mean...I see where you are coming
from. Do we have...does it give the authority of the chair to do it?
Is there an appeal of that? It's a good question.
Judge Wiseman.
Yeah the advisory opinion, I mean, it should be pretty open and
allowable. We don't wanna create a chilling effect in those and so
long as we have some protection where we can reject them if it's
something outlandish we would have the authority to some type of
reprimand or sanction. Then I think we should just leave it alone.
In an advisory opinions, I'm not clear but I think they do have
some requirements before submissions right?
Yes.
But they're more technical I would say than substantial.
Right. I think in Honolulu's Charter or maybe even Maui right? I
think only Honolulu, the staff has a screening process right? They
have a whole different set up and they have actually a Board of
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Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Adams:
Appeals, Ethics Board of Appeals just for the Board of Ethics so
it's very different...
So long as we have the right, can we reject them without hearing?
See I agree with you though and with all respect Madam Chair. I
think maybe by our rules we can have a process of where the Chair
does something and it's ratified at the meeting but...no matter how
frivolous I think we should have a hearing.
Our U.S. Supreme Court gets...they got about 14,000 appeals this
year. They heard 61. So the 9 Circuit Court of Appeals gets an
average about 12,000 cases a year...appeals. And they're the
largest circuit in the country. And they hear every one. Or
they...but they can reject an appeal without hearing so.
Interesting.
Just an analogy.
I don't know how many frivolous complaints you've heard cause
I'm fairly new on the Board but my observation in the 8 or 9
months I've been on...is that you haven't had an overabundance of
this kind of thing. They've mostly been fairly serious. I think the
issue...another issue that has come up in our discussions has been
whether or not we can or should in certain cases impose fines.
That is a question that people ask. If we don't specify that we have
the power to do that then people are left uncertain as to whether
that can happen. So that's another thing that might be discussed.
As for the special contract, of course there are emergency
situations where they have to get somebody in right away. I mean,
I understand that. But in the case that came before us, there was
over 6 month before the service was needed and the suggestion just
sat on someone's desk for 6 months before they decided to act on it
and that's the kind of situation where it might be considered
inappropriate to just you know go ahead with the decision without
and violating human resource rules or other conditions of
employment.
Just quickly if I may. When you were raising... Vice -Chair
Goodenow...when you were raising the conversation or the items
about civil fines. Was that...that's to delineate it...make sure that
that's different from the administrative finds that's in our
ordinances...
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Mr. Goodenow:
Mils. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Adams:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Well just to make sure that the authority is there from the top. I
mean, I agree if you read our section and it says penalties or any
such penalty as the council may prescribe by ordinance. I think
that probably would be covered. I just note that every other charter
puts in a specific provision that states that there is authority to fine
and if you...I mean you can go online and look up the charters of
the other Counties. So that kind of stood out when I was reviewing
them.
I certainly don't want to narrow the right of the people to come in
front of the Board of Ethics. But unfortunately I was little bit
scarred from my first two years on the Board where the frivolous
petitions you know were just really slowing down our process and
really putting undue hardship on everybody and we used to have
meetings that went on until 4 o'clock. You know so.
You're bringing back the memories.
Luckily we haven't had any issues like that which is great. But it's
just something that has happened and so I just wanted to bring it
out. But I do appreciate it. Do we have any other thoughts to
share with Mr. Adams?
Madam Chair, if I may, so obviously if you decide that as a Board
that you would to write the Commission at letter, send a
communication of some kind to fill out some of the thoughts that
you've had here or to add new thoughts of course we welcome
those. I would tell you that on a timeline perspective that we will
be looking to develop and have a first reading of our proposals by
the end of this year or the beginning of next. No later than January
because we have public hearing requirements and we want to be
going forward with them so we have a very tight timeline in
prepping these things. So to the extent that you all are interested
in...desire to send us additional information or a letter by all
means. Please do so but more quickly than not.
We appreciate sharing that timeline with us. Go ahead Mr.
Goodenow.
I was just gonna say we trust you to take back our...what we've
written or I do. I wanted to state...you know there's some bills are
before the council that relate to the Board of Ethics and I don't
think we should go into the policy aspects of that. But I would like
to note that if you put too much in the charter right? It can be very
difficult for us in interpreting it and to...you know anything new. I
don't want to go to specifics right but things like that might be
14
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Adams:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
difficult for us to really define and that kind of you know...I'd be
very weary of people making charter proposals that really should
be in the code maybe that would make it very... Cause you know
you gotta have definitions in all this and I'm just concerned about
that. Thank you for keeping it simple and broad. Thank you.
Alright. Thank you very much Mr. Adams for coming today. We
really appreciate it.
Thank you Madam Chair and thank you for all that you do for our
County. This is...when I had the opportunity to serve, I always
felt that this was the one place that residence actually, anybody had
an opportunity to come and you know kind speak truth to power to
some degree. So thank you very much.
Thank you. Our next agenda item is still under new business
review of a gift disclosure statement received from the following
County officer or employee.
Madam Chair you had a motion to file that communication? You
wanna take a quick vote on that and then we can dispose of that.
Thank you! Aloha!
Was there a second?
Was there a second, I don't know?
Second.
Any discussion in regards to the gift disclosure statement?
Oh no that was as to Mr. Adams' communication. I thought Mr.
Goodenow did a motion to file.
Oh, I'm sorry. Yes. Alright sorry we're going back to 4. a. motion
to file.
I think Mr. Robinson's letter.
Oh right. Wasn't it?
Mr. Robinson's letter? That's what you're talking about?
I'm talking about Mr. Adams' letter when we brought it up Mr.
Goodenow I thought made a motion to file the communication
15
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Motion and Vote:
there was a second I think from Mr. Wiseman. And we just need
to vote on that and then get that filed away and then move on to the
next one.
And then we do Robinson's one too? No that wasn't on the
agenda. That was just a communication he wanted to share. But
that wasn't placed on the agenda.
Would that be included in the minutes.
Be in the minutes.
Yeah.
Be included in the minutes...I think that's important that we do
that. Thank you.
The communication that we're talking about is that one that was
received from Charter Chair Douglass Shipman Adams on and is
dated August 1, 2018. We have a motion on the floor to accept
and to file that communication...all in favor say aye. Any
opposed? So that motion is carried. Apologize okay. And now
moving on to new business b.
Mr. Goodenow moved for a motion to file. Mr. Wiseman
seconded. All members voted aye.
b. Review of Gift Disclosure Statements received from the following County officer
or employee.
1. Rose Bautista
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
And we have that here.
I must have missed that.
Thank you. Yes it goes along with several that we received last
time for the same trip if I'm not mistaken there.
We're just approving this. We're reviewing and unless you have a
...you wanna mention anything about it. I guess we move to file.
I'll move to file.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Second.
16
Ms. Kahakalau:
Okay we'll wait until Judge Wiseman has an opportunity to look at
it and then I will call for the question if there is no further
discussion.
Mr. Wiseman: Yeah, okay.
Ms. Kahakalau:
Okay. All in good favor say aye. Any opposed? Alright so that
motion is carried. Thank you. Maika'i. Next item on the agenda
is a communication dated August 10, 2018 from Bill Kikuchi
regarding consideration of research in Claim No 17-0056.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to file. Ms. Sumner -Mack seconded. All
members voted aye.
c. Communication dated August 10, 2018 from Bill Kikuchi regarding
consideration of research into Claim #17-0056.
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Yeah. I have some comments in that.
Okay. Go ahead sir.
Yeah. As you'll note, he's asking if the Board would consider this
matter and I don't think we should. It's a legal question...so legal
matter. His whole thing is a tree fell on his property, the County
was gonna remove it, they asked him to sign a waiver. And he said
according to him that he asked if signing the waiver would prevent
any future claims and someone allegedly, an attorney said yes it
will... or no it won't. So he could still bring future claims. So I
have a lot of problems with that. It wasn't his lawyer. He didn't
seek legal advice. We don't know what the lawyer really said. It
could be taken out of context. There's a whole ramification in if
he's gonna sue, he's claiming $18,000 for damages to his other
trees when they removed the mango tree from the road. Yeah and
this is strictly a legal matter. A lot of legal questions. A lot of
facts to be discovered and I don't think it's within our parameters
to do so.
Thank you Judge Wiseman. Any other discussion? I guess we
really have...
I concur and I only note too that of the email that was given to us
says...Corporation Counsel misspoke...it's not even saying that he
you know lied or did...you know so I agree this really should be...
He...they may have a claim in court, we don't know, as Judge
Wiseman said but that's really the appropriate venue.
17
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
I need assistance as to what we do with this now please, from our
Counsel.
Yes Madam Chair so first of all we should probably have a motion
to file the communication then we can discuss it further. Why
don't we do that first?
Mr. Goodenow: So moved.
Mr. Wiseman: Second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Alright.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Okay and so...at this point the Board has several options
right...the Board could notify the...Mr. Kikuchi....basically what
is done and it will not take any further action. We can do this by
letter from the Chair or we could do it... Yeah I'm thinking that's
the best way because this is not a petition so there is no opinion or
anything to generate. This is just basically saying...we've
received your request, we're not taking any further action at this
time.
Mr. Wiseman: Received and reviewed your request and it's not a matter for the
Board to consider.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Right. I think that would probably the...cause this is
unusual...this hasn't happened right?
Ms. Kahakalau: No.
Mr. Yoshimoto: In our time here so.
Mr. Wiseman: I would move that a short communication to that effect.
Mr. Goodenow: I'd second that...along the lines explained by Mr. Yoshimoto.
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay.
Mr. Yoshimoto: And the Chair be authorized to sign that on behalf of the Board.
Mr. Goodenow: Yes.
Ms. Kahakalau: Okay. So we still have the first motion as far as filing the
communication. So can I ask for that question first?
18
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Technically I think you gotta do the first...the other thing first
before you close the file...I don't know.
Oh okay, okay. Sorry about that alright so there is a motion to
send the...to send a motion...I'm sorry. There's a motion to sign a
letter...ah send a letter to Mr. Kikuchi explaining our process to
him and that we don't feel that this is a matter for the Board. And
we have a motion and a second in regards to that. Any further
discussion? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? So that motion is
carried and then I guess we still need to file. Okay so we had an
earlier...can we keep our earlier motion and second? Okay. Any
discussion? All in favor of filing the communication say aye. Any
opposed? So that motion is carried and thank you very much for
that and for new business 4 d. we have one more communication
dated 8/27/18 from Barbara Lively who is a Legislative Assistant
in District 4.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved for motion to file. Mr. Wiseman seconded. All
members voted aye.
Mr. Wiseman moved for a motion to send communication to Mr. Kikuchi. Mr. Goodenow
seconded. All members voted aye.
d. Communication dated August 27, 2003 from Barbara Lively, Legislative
Assistant, District 4, regarding Proposal Code Amendment: Ch. 2 Article 15
Code of Ethics and review of Bill introduced by Council Eileen O'Hara.
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Do we have any motion there to file the communication? Or any
other motion?
Well, yeah let's start with motion to file and we can always close
with that. I move to file.
Second.
Alright. Any discussion?
Well...I don't know we could just send a letter saying it's a policy
decision. But I would like to say that if they do enact this, that
they should provide a definition as to what is accurate and factual
information. I don't...I don't know.
I mean that's a...the way it's described here is Chapter 2. I'm
looking at the Code of Ethics which has sections 2 in its Article 15
and then she says Chapter 2, Article 15 Code of Ethics. So is...I'd
ask our legal counsel...is Article 15 within Chapter 2 of
19
something? The way the Code of Ethics I'm looking at...it's
Article 15 Code of Ethics and then section 2 - and so on. So my
question is...where she's saying code amendment to Chapter 2...
Mr. Yoshimoto: Right.
Mr. Wiseman: Article 15.
Mr. Yoshimoto: So this is in Article 15. Correct. Yes.
Mr. Wiseman: Okay.
Mr. Yoshimoto: So she's basically just trying to add...
Mr. Wiseman: It's actually section 2, should be section 2, Article 15. That's the
way the codes are listed.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Right.
Mr. Wiseman: Section 279 through...
Mr. Yoshimoto: You're correct, it is Section 2, Article 15. Yes.
Mr. Wiseman: Alright, and if that's the case, there's no indication within those
many pages what they want to amend. Or what's proposed...
Mr. Yoshimoto:
So on the second page, there's a draft of a Bill that the council is
considering and they're basically proposing to yeah. Add the
underlying portion on section 4.
Mr. Wiseman: I don't have that but why don't you go ahead and explain it.
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah it's in the...
Mr. Goodenow: I'll show you.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: The second page of that. The attached.
Mr. Wiseman: Somehow I don't have that.
Mr. Goodenow: If you look at this code 2-83. I'd put it right there, that gives you a
bigger picture of it if you look at it that way. I'd like to comment
in that. So it's under the fair treatment section right and it's saying
all officers, employees shall adhere to these precepts.
Mr. Wiseman: I have that. Is this what the amendment?
20
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
You know and says shall provide accurate...well I don't know...I
mean...you may honestly believe something to be true and
accurate when it may not factually be accurate. I...but I don't
know if we should wade into a policy discussion here. My advice
is to say that it it's a policy question. We only ask that you look at
the definition section in that section and see if you might not
provide. Well I don't know I... Personally I have problems but I
don't know if it's really for us to be... You know I'm not the
policy maker. I don't know what to do.
I would suggest that we acknowledge receipt of it and... It is
policy and this is for the council.
Right. Well maybe we just respond that way.
So just as a note, I didn't attend the last council meeting but what I
was informed was, was that the council members specifically
mentioned on the record that this matter...this Bill was being
referred to the Board, this Board of Ethics for review and
comments. So just so you know that...
Oh. Well wouldn't we need a formal letter from the clerk or the
chair saying that we're submitting this?
That would be better. But then this is what happened basically.
Her staff emailed this to me and asked us to be reviewed by the
Board. I was told that's the representation that was made. Just so
the Board is aware.
Actually one problem I like the catch all...to the best of ability of
the employee ability and knowledge...that's good. But I do have
a...I shared a concern of the word accurate. We can go through
with this all of us and find something that will serve the same
purpose and be less demanding. That's a very demanding
term...accurate. Yeah. Then I would also have a suggestion...that
they include another word in number 3. Which would be...all
persons shall be treated in a courteous, fair and impartial manner
and with dignity.
And with what?
Dignity.
Dignity.
21
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Or in a dignified manner.
But aren't the first 4 or 3 items already in the Charter?
Yes.
So they just wanna add number 4, so we're not really asked to rule
anything on 3.
Well I think they're asking for our opinion in general. And so if
we have an opinion on 3, I don't think there's any problem with us
forwarding that opinion to them. You know then it's up to them to
figure out if that's what they want or not. I really like that dignity
part. To me it spells aloha which is what we're all about so
whether it's dignified you know added dignified in there or add
with dignity. Yeah.
Yeah. Fair and dignified manner.
Or respectful. Would that be...would that work? Respectful
manner.
I like dignity. I like both. Respectful and dignified but I'd say in a
courteous, fair and impartial manner with well... You know it's
fine if we wanna throw that in. They ask for our opinion, we can
give any answer back we want.
And then perhaps as far as number 4 is concerned, taking out the
"accurate" and just keeping the factual because you know I
mean...technically you could say if it's factual than it should be
accurate as well.
Should be honest.
What are they trying to get at right? Someone goes say through a
department and the person doesn't tell um everything they should
know right? Is it complete right? Or they're not...they're actually
lying right? Would all that actually be covered by fair in number
3? I mean I don't know I just wonder...I just have trouble how
else...cause we're the ones that are gonna have to define what is
accurate and factual to the best of their abilities and knowledge.
Well he should have known this. I don't know. I think really
what we're trying to do is that everyone is fair and does the best
job in serving the public that they cannot take in any favorites or
that's what we're really getting at. Then again my advice is we
send a letter saying thank you...it's a policy decision and then
22
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
maybe if anything add we are concerned however regarding the
interpretation and would seek guidance on what is meant by just
quoted...accurate, factual information to the best of each officers
ability or...I don't know. It's my 2 cents. Sorry for being long
winded today.
I really like your suggestion about the complete and factual
information because I know that that has been an issue with people
going to County and not giving all the information and then they're
halfway through the project and oh we weren't told that part...kind
of thing so. From personal experience and from you know social
media and all of that and even to a certain extent a little bit here as
well over the years but I think that the part about the complete...I
really like to and versus accurate...if we put "complete and
factual" so if you're gonna draft a letter that I would like to
include...if it's alright with everybody...that "dignified" part of in
the number 3 and "complete and factual" in the other one. Just so
that it...that that's very clear to the officers and employees and
when somebody comes that the entire scenarios are explained.
Right. Complete also sort of implies an accurate statement.
Yeah. Okay. If so what I am hearing is that there may be a motion
then to send the communication.
I'll make a motion. Alright. I make a motion that with respect to
the amendment sent to us by the Council...that we approve section
be amended. We approve the amendment to section 4 or item 4,
(a) 4 or section 2 of article 15 with respect, subject to a change in
lieu of the word accurate that we use the word complete and I
would. And in a further note, we would make a suggestion that
item number 3...remove the word "and"...and after "impartial
manner" place the words "in a dignified manner".
Do we have a second.
Should be "in a dignified manner".
I'll second that motion. Any further discussion?
Normally you wouldn't second the motion but anyway. As far as
"dignified" then so there is no definition for dignified in the code.
Is that something the Board wants to...because the Board will
be...if this passes the Board will be charged with interpreting this
section? I just want to make sure that if the Board is comfortable
in the way it is right now...then that's...
23
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
We would use a common application of it.
Okay.
My question is that...what Mr. Wiseman has proposed isn't
seemed to fit. The wording isn't quite...doesn't jive. Now maybe
I got my green eye shade on this morning. Can you read us...read
to us how you really want it to read.
Alright. I would suggest in number 3 be changed to read all...
persons shall be treated in a courteous, fair and impartial manner in
a dignified...
Could I make a suggestion?
Impartial and dignified manner perhaps.
How about...all person shall be treated with dignity in a courteous
fair and impartial manner.
Good.
Not that I'm going to vote for it by the way. I'm not sure cause I
have trouble with number 4. I'm thinking but I'm not sure yet.
Thank you.
I would amend my motion to use that language in lieu of mine with
respect to the suggested number 3 change.
All persons shall be treated with dignity in a courteous, fair and
unpartial manner. Okay so what I'm hearing is that we may have
an issue with 4 but not with 3. If we don't have any further
discussion we can...I can call for the vote. And then we will see
where...where we are at upset. Oh go ahead.
Since we are exchanging... I don't see any reason to take out
accurate in number 4. Why can't we just say...complete, accurate
and factual information to the public. Why do we have to take out
accurate?
No. I mean personally I'm kind of against both because what is
complete? I mean we're talking...so the guy goes in for a road
variance and or something right and the guy says okay you gotta
do this, this, and that and then you know he goes back and then
later finds out he needs a water variance....so well why didn't you
24
tell me I needed a water variance...well you asked about the road
variance. I think it's opening up a Pandora's Box. The bottom
line is people should be treated fairly and courteously... and that
goes without saying that the public official is not gonna lie, he's
not gonna purposely mislead or withhold information that's
needed. I can see putting it in there for the effect of just stating it.
I grant you that. But I think defining what's accurate, complete,
fair to the persons understanding at the time the advice was given.
I think that needs to be tightened up personally. But my feeling
is...it is policy and that should be the council and sorry I'm
blabbering again. Thank you.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: No. Excuse me but I'm...you know...I just think complete open
does open it up. Because...but accurate...I mean I'm thinking
about financial information. And I think accuracy is very
important and I think that is an ethical issue and it could come up
in terms of budgets and that's what I'm going to say I think. I'd
like to keep the accurate. If you want to drop the complete, I'd be
happy with that too. But I see no reason why we can't have both.
Mr. Wiseman:
The problem I have with the accurate too is... Okay let's say
someone calls, oh can I get my tax assessment. I lost the bill or
whatever. And the clerk accidentally transposes two numbers,
right? Makes a mistake, now that person could sue or file a
complaint...was that an ethics violation? I don't know, I have
more questions than answers at this point. But again this is a
policy call so, I'm not gonna go there. I'd just ask it be clear.
Ms. Kahakalau: Judge Wiseman.
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
We're just offering an opinion on this proposed amendment. And
apparently, if you look through the 4 items here under section 2.
There's nothing in there that deals with giving someone
information. It's just treatment, etc. So perhaps they have a good
reason for putting something like that in there. That if you're
going to be dealing with someone that you provide them factual
information. I maintain opposition to the word accurate cause it
implies...it implies almost is on the borderline of a legal
definition...a legal Pandora's Box. So I'm sorta against that but
the...we could just take out accurate and just leave it as without
any adjective...just the factual information.
But the people who are proposing this through the council or who
have previously approved it...apparently had some basis for
thinking that it would be important to stress this. And I think a
bookkeeper, anybody who's charged with dispensing information
25
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
to the public, should be reminded constantly that they are
responsible for providing complete, accurate and factual...or
complete accurate, factual information...you could even take the
"and" out. But I think some public employees do, they get rushed
or they're negligent or they're waiting to go to lunch and they
don't give you the whole facts and I have suffered from this. And
they have given inaccurate information. And I think it...you know
it doesn't hurt for us to come through and on the side of
saying...it's an expected service. Anyway, that's enough for me.
The motion on the floor is still complete and factual and the person
who introduced that motion is against the accurate part so as far as
the amendment...
Move to amend it. It might get voted down or you can just
forward with the way it is.
Accurate again just one more statement on discussion. Accurate...
you know it opens up a legal challenge. Someone has a 2 instead
of a 3 that was innocently put in there...you're gonna challenge
it...you didn't give me accurate information cause she said $2
instead of $3 ...even though it was an innocent mistake...it opens
the door for challenges. Not to say that the others don't, but not to
the degree that an accurate...it's like a CPA statement...must be
accurate. But less than that...so I mean...the same purpose can be
accomplished by complete and factual or if you want put
something in there in lieu of accurate. Can always put honest but
that's sort of going through a... Anyway I maintain on my motion.
Okay. Are we ready to vote? Okay, all in favor of approving our
latest motion say aye. Anybody opposed? So we have 2 opposed
and 2 forward. So the motion does not carry. So we just file.
I move that we write a letter and state that it's a policy matter and
we leave it to the council though we request that any
definition...we consider providing definitions for interpretation
and just leave it at that. Any seconds? I know that we don't even
write back I guess.
I would amend that but again second to suggest a different word
than accurate. If we're not going to...but then, then it defeats the
purpose. Anyway withdraw that.
Having served in public places, libraries and such...as a
bookkeeper and a record keeper, I think accuracy is very important
and I think that as an ethics advisory it behooves us to stress that,
26
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
that accuracy is a...an ethical issue. If you choose not to be
accurate...if you choose to fudge the numbers...that's a violation
of ethics not... And completeness as more vague to me but I don't
object to that but I really think it's important for everyone to keep
in mind that accuracy is...is a matter of honesty in some cases.
So just to go back we have a motion but I'm not too sure if it was
seconded.
No it wasn't.
It wasn't right so...
My motion is we just respond back saying thank you...this is a
policy call that the council can make. We only ask that guidance
be provided regarding definitions used in the amendment.
Do we hear a second for that?
I still have a problem with the word accurate. Here's the definition
to the accurate...correct, precise, exact, right, error free, perfect...
It's crazy.
In dealing with a government, government stand is although I
agree with Nan, in that they should reach that level or strive for
that level it's very rarely achieved.
I'm gonna then, I mean the other option is which goes against my,
what I just said why I was voting, not to be involved in the policy
decision. But we could say, as written, we do not support...given
concerns over definitions...given concern over the word accurate
and the lack of other definitions.
Accurate is not normally construed to be imperfect.
It would be if there's no definition or we had to...
Well we'd have to have a definition but...but it doesn't ordinarily
assert perfection. In my experience.
Well so in this case now. A. We have a motion we still don't have
a second and basically all we're asking is that they will define,
right? Clearly define whatever they mean by these...
The terms used.
27
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Yeah. By the terns that are being used currently which include
accurate.
Don't dismiss the catch all language...to the best of each
employee's abilities and knowledge...now that puts an obligation
there to come out with everything that they know about it.
So do we have a second for the latest motion?
Which was?
Are we going with we're not supporting...I prefer my...the motion
that I thought is pending that we... It's we write a letter back
thanking them stating that it's a policy call. We only ask as the
body to interpret any amendments that the terms be clearly
defined. And we could put including but not limited to
accurate...if you want to...but I don't have that I'm just saying
that it'd be clearly defined.
So that would be the motion. Do I hear a second? Okay for the
purpose of discussion, I going to second it. Do we have any
discussion? If not, I'll call for the question. Oh, sorry.
I can go along with that motion however I would like to add with
respect to a definition to be defined in particular the word accurate.
Good. I support that.
Do we have a friendly amendment to that motion? Is the person
who seconded...in agreement to that, okay.
I support it. I think that's a good suggestion.
That's alright. There'll be 3 against... They're asking us as an
ethics body to...
If they left it in, then the accurate would be in there. It will just be
a definition that they would provide.
Yeah. So at this point we are not suggesting any changes to
the...as presented here. But we are asking for definitions for each
of the words...specifically accurate.
Mr. Goodenow: We're stating we're taking no position on the substantive.
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Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Because it's a policy.
Call for the council.
Alright, any further discussion? Counsel?
So I'm trying to make sure. So the motion is to ask for a definition
of accurate...
Just send a letter back thanking them for our...their request and
stating that as...regarding the substance of the amendment we
defer to the council being the policy-making body...however we
do request guidance regarding the definition of the terms used in
the amendment in particular the word accurate.
Okay.
Are you leaving out any reference to item 3?
Yeah...at this point we're not making any changes to the ordinance
amending...amendment at this point and time.
Right cause that first motion failed right, okay.
With this motion...no amendments...just definition
specifically... accurate.
Right. I move for the question.
And can I say including but not limited to the term accurate. Just
so they don't think well that's the only problem. I'm also
wondering about this other thing here.
Okay so we're deferring so we're not commenting on this. Other
than to request a definition. So the Board is okay with...well not
okay...it's deferring without comment as to the...okay just so it's
clear because then this is gonna be in a letter from the Chair to the
Council member. Okay.
Now calling for the question. All in favor say aye. Any opposed?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Oh...you got three.
Mr. Goodenow:
But you gotta record it.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Oh... oh...no.
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Ms. Kahakalau:
So we have 3 ayes and 1 nay.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Nay... sorry.
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
But the motion is carried.
Turning attention the item 3. I would move that the...just a short
a...suggestion. That, that item 3 be amended to read that
the...what was it Ken that language
All persons shall be treated with dignity in a courteous, fair and
impartial manner.
Yes.
Do I have a second on that?
Ms. Sumner -Mack: Second.
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Just to clarify. This isn't in...this is just a...wait we're asking that
they consider code amendment.
Yes.
So via separate letter or in the same letter?
Same...I would think the same letter would be okay.
Yeah, same letter would be fine.
Well my only issue with that is now are we taking a substantive
position. So I can vote no and the three of you can vote yes.
Friendly suggestion is what I would consider it you know. Okay...
So just as an FYI...so just as a quick word search. Dignity is a
state of...the state of quality of being worthy of honor or respect.
So that's the common definition that I quickly pulled up right...so
just that we know what we were suggesting...because this Board
will be charged if passed to interpret that. So as long as the
Board's okay with that then...that's where we're gonna go.
Yes. And I think respect was mentioned earlier it is similar. Okay
so any further discussions? Calling for the question. All in favor,
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Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
say aye. Any opposed? Okay so yeah. 1 opposed and 3 ayes
which means the motion is carried.
I have one detailed motion. I would also make a motion that the
item 3 as Ken suggested being a separate letter.
Oh... okay.
I would prefer that.
Alright.
Just say that the Board of Ethics reviewing the section 15, section
2-83 would like to request that this be added.
Yeah cause it wouldn't be consistent with...
So it's a motion?
It'll just be a separate letter.
Okay so we don't have to vote on it...I'm okay with that as well.
Thank you.
I don't think we need an official motion. Okay. Regarding to the
filing of the communication...
We could send it one week later...just kidding.
In regard to the filing also communication.
Okay so just as a...for information purposes right? My
recollection was that we're the only County that has this
provision...that calls for courteous, fair and impartial treatment so
now we're...by this amendment this Board is refining that to...
To stress the underline dignity of all human beings.
So that I'm clear...by adding the word "with dignity" that expands
the responsibility...increases the responsibility right of County and
employees and officials. Correct?
Yeah.
Right...I mean that's what we're doing.
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Mr. Goodenow: Yes my lord.
Mr. Yoshimoto: No...I'm just asking the question. Okay...I'm just curious alright
we're good.
Ms. Kahakalau: Filing? Do we still need to...don't need to...any further motion
or...
Mr. Goodenow: We had a motion to file.
Ms. Kahakalau: Yeah.
Mr. Yoshimoto: Right.
Mr. Goodenow: So we gotta have the vote or how else to close it.
Ms. Kahakalau: So can I call for the question then? All in favor of filing the
communication say aye. Any opposed? Alright that motion is
carried unanimously. Wonderful.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved the motion to file. Mr. Wiseman seconded the
motion. All members voted aye.
Mr. Goodenow moved to send a communication Council O'Hara. Ms. Kahakalau
seconded the motion. 3 Members voted aye with 1 nay.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS (10:34 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau:
Our next item off the agenda is usually unfinished
business...however since there is no unfinished business we're
moving right into the executive session where are looking at all
kinds of tasks. Primarily, the minutes and then the review of our
confidential disclosure forms we have received 4 with 1 being a re-
review. So if we can have a motion to go into executive session.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: I shall move.
Ms. Kahakalau: Any second?
Mr. Goodenow: For the purpose of...did you say all that.
Ms. Kahakalau: I sort of mumbled it.
Mr. Goodenow: You said it...we're fine...I'll second.
32
Ms. Kahakalau: We have a motion and a second. All in favor say aye. Alright so
we are going to go into executive session at this point and time.
Motion and Vote: Ms. Sumner -Mack moved to go into executive session. Mr. Goodenow
seconded the motion. All members voted aye.
11:23 a.m. The Board moved into executive session.
* * * *
11:50 a.m. The Board returned from executive session.
6. VOTING ON EXECUTIVE SESSION MATTERS (11:50a.m.)
a.
Review of the executive session minutes of June 12, 2018.
Ms. Kahakalau:
I would like to call the meeting of the Hawaii County Board of
Ethics back to order at 11:50. We are corning out of executive
session and I'm looking for a motion for the approval of the
executive session minutes.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: So moved.
Mr. Wiseman:
Second.
Ms. Kahakalau: Great. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? So
the executive session minute of August 14, 2018 are approved.
Motion and Vote: Ms. Sumner -Mack moved for a motion to approve minutes of the
executive session. Mr. Wiseman seconded. All members voted aye.
b. Review of Confidential Financial Disclosure Forms filed pursuant to
Section 2-91.1(d), Hawaii County Code, by County board and
commission members and designated County employees, where
personal matters will be reviewed.
Ms. Kahakalau: Anything in regards to the confidential disclosure forms?
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
No. We don't need a motion do we? It's just to file. Well I move
that we accept and file the 4 reports...disclosure statements forms.
Second?
Second.
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Ms. Kahakalau:
Okay, any discussion? All in favor say aye. Any opposed? So
that has been filed. It's approved to be filed. Our next agenda
item is number 7.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to file all the items. Ms. Sumner -Mack seconded.
All members voted aye.
7. DISCUSSION REGARDING AMENDMENTS TO THE RULES OF PRACTICE
AND PROCEDURE OF THE BOARD OF ETHICS OF THE COUNTY OF HAWAII.
(11:53 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Which we have been fortunate to have our Vice -Chair Goodenow
taking the lead on.
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Well yes though I kind of stumbled this time. So here's where we
are as I see it...we need to review chapters 5 and 6. Oh sorry
I...just to make sure I have it right I'm gonna look at it. We've
already done rules 1 through 4. 5, 6 and 7 are all related and that's
kind of the hefty, heavy lifting that's the hearing process right then
the formal hearing process as well. And so and then we have 8 and
9 which are kind of just simple and short. So we have 2 more
reviews and then I believe that our 2 Members here at my end of
the table are going to kind of act as the
language/proofreading...you know the language is consistent and
any kind of edits like that. I mean even I think like Hawaiian
diacritical marks if we need that...that kind of thing. So that's 3
reviews and then one final by corp. counsel...but that could
actually be kind of simultaneous with the last review. So I don't
know if we'll finish by the end of the year but we're close and I
was gonna try and do the review of rules 5, 6, and 7 at this meeting
but because Mr. Robinson wasn't going to be here cause we a have
the charter stuff and because the whole back wall of my office after
the hurricane they had to dig it out...take my bookshelves
down...water had come in from the building. Fortunately, it's not
my insurance that covers it's the building. Cause it came from
outside, so I don't have to pay. But things are in disarray and I
couldn't find the...my computer got moved and I couldn't find the
word version of our rules. My secretary's gonna kill me if I lost
them, she'll have to re -do it. But for those reasons I thought ah,
we'll just put it off one meeting. I appreciate your patience.
I wanna know what...I'm sorry kala mai. What does that mean?
Kala is to forgive. So kala mai means please excuse me. Excuse
me or to forgive literally.
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Ms. Sumner -Mack: Thank you.
Ms. Kahakalau:
And I am...unconsciously using Hawaiian and so thank you for
asking. It is one of our State languages so I could hold this whole
meeting in Hawaiian if I chose to do so, however until we
normalize the language again, I will restrict myself. But as I said
unconsciously...
Ms. Sumner -Mack: No, I love it. I love it and I want to learn more words so don't hold
back.
Ms. Kahakalau: To using some of the more commonly known verbiage but please
ask anytime. I'm not doing it on purpose it just kind of happens.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: No, I like that but I just don't have a Hawaiian dictionary.
Ms. Kahakalau: So do we have any further discussion in regards to the amendments
or the plan to get through amendment from 5 to 9.
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Kahakalau:
I'll put something out for the next meeting, you guys will get it in
your packets and I know that's not a lot of time to review but
basically all I'm gonna do is what I've been doing. I'm gonna do a
chart with our charter and the other counties. If anyone has
suggestions bring it up at the meeting.
I think that format has been very helpful for me. Easy to look at
and it's thought provoking because sometimes there's something in
another charter that completely lacks in ours or its presented in a
different way and it just kind gives me some idea of which
direction I, we could go into as we are looking at amendments so I
appreciate that procedure. It definitely works for me.
Mr. Goodenow: Thank you.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: And so that's going to be on October 15?
Ms. Kahakalau: So that's...that's going to be our next item if we're finished with
the discussion regarding the amendments.
8. DISCUSSION REGARDING CHANGES TO THE BOARD OF ETHICS
MONTHLY MEETING SCHEDULE. (11:57 a.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau:
At this point we have it scheduled for October 15, 2018, however
both myself as well as Judge Wiseman won't be able to make that
meeting since I'll be out the country and he'll be out of the islands.
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Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
We're not a 100% sure about Mr. Robinson. However, there was
an informal suggestion earlier in terms of possibly postponing that
meeting to a November meeting.
I don't know. Do we have to have a monthly meeting scheduled
and then cancel it or could we just say there doesn't seem to be
much business, quorum's a problem...we're gonna just wait till
November. Is that legit?
Well we have two options right if the members know they're not
available on that particular day, we don't have quorum then we can
just...cancel that and reschedule for November. I think I have
November 15th as the next...oh 13 I'm sorry...November 13.
There's no or else
We don't know whether Mr. Robinson's available or not available
but we know for sure that 2 of us won't be here.
And I have court at 11 that I can't change so I'd only be available
for 50 minutes.
Okay.
In November...I'm off for a week on November 10th
10th. So we'd have to change that November meeting.
So right now it's scheduled for the 13th. What would work for
you?
I have any time before the 10th or after the 18tH
So that the 20th would be the 6th or the 20th...as far as Tuesday is
concern. I don't know what the calendar looks like as far using the
room Maria?
I have an administrative hearing that morning.
On which day?
The 20th at 8...and I think it would be hard to change...I just had it
changed.
What about the 6th?
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Ms. Pagala:
Election Day.
Ms. Sumner -Mack: That's right, it's Election Day.
Ms. Kahakalau:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Wiseman:
Mr. Goodenow:
Mr. Wiseman:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Yoshimoto:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Kahakalau:
Mr. Goodenow:
Ms. Sumner -Mack:
It's Election Day.
That would be better maybe because we won't have...we won't
meet again until that day so it might be better to have it earlier.
Yeah. Is everybody okay with the 6th being Election Day?
The room I'm sure is being used as a part of the counting center.
But I meant well we could try Wednesday.
We could do the 5t''.
Yeah I guess I could.
Wednesday...we don't have to do it on Tuesday.
Yeah Wednesday the 7t'' I'm free. I've got court at 8:30 but it's
short. I would definitely be available at 10.
What about the 7t''.
good...at this point.
So what we'll do then...we'll check with the staff to see if this
room is available on either of those dates and we'll let you know.
That's probably the best way cause we need to get a location.
I would move however well...so we're gonna leave the 15t'' though
we all well as a wink and a nod we know there won't be quorum
and it'll get canceled. It's gonna be canceled because of quorum.
Okay. Then the next meeting I move that we suspend the rules and
have the November meeting either on November 5t'' or 7t'' or as
determined by the Chair.
Okay. That sounds good. Second?
We need a second.
Second.
37
Ms. Kahakalau: Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Alright so we have that 5, 7
or discretion of the Chair for our November meeting.
Motion and Vote: Mr. Goodenow moved to suspend the rules and change the regular
scheduled meeting date to September 5t1' or 7th or as determined by the Chair. Ms.
Sumner -Mack Seconded. All members voted aye.
9. ANNOUNCEMENTS (12:01 p.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: And any other announcements. Anything?
10. ADJOURNMENT (12:01 p.m.)
Ms. Kahakalau: Then I will...l will adjourn this meeting at 12:01.
Respectfully submitted:
Maria Pagala, Secretary
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