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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-11-07 Hearing Transcript - William Quinn (Pahoa Farm & Garden) SPP 18-199WINDWARD PLANNING COMMISSION COUNTY OF HAWAII HEARING TRANSCRIPT NOVEMBER 7, 2018 A regularly advertised hearing on the application of WILLIAM S. QUINN – PAHOA FARM & GARDEN, LLC (SPP 18-000199) was called to order at 11:29 a.m. in the County of Hawaii Aupuni Center Conference Room, 101 Pauahi Street, Hilo, Hawaii with Chairman Joseph Clarkson presiding. COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Gilbert Aguinaldo, Joseph Clarkson, Donald Ikeda, John Replogle. ABSENT & EXCUSED: Donn Dela Cruz, Thomas Raffipiy. ALSO PRESENT: Michael Yee (Planning Director), Malia Hall (Deputy Corporation Counsel for the Windward Planning Commission), Jeff Darrow (Planning Program Manager), Maija Jackson (Planner), Christian Kay (Planner), Sarah Hata-Finley (Commission Secretary), and Kim Tanaka (from 12:31 p.m.). And 15 members from the public in attendance. APPLICANT: WILLIAM S. QUINN - PAHOA FARM & GARDEN, LLC (SPP 18-000199) Application for a Special Permit to allow the development of a 3,600 square -foot farm and garden retail store and related improvements on 32,670 square feet of land in the State Land Use Agricultural District. The property is located on the mauka (west) side of the Pahoa Bypass Road, approximately 1,800 feet southwest of its intersection with Post Office Road, Pahoa, Puna, Hawaii, TMK: (3) 1-5-005:024. CLARKSON: Our next item what time is it 11:30? Our next item on the agenda is—thank you—an application from William S. Quinn of Pahoa Farm & Garden, LLC for a Special Permit. KAY: Me again. Thank you, Mr. Chair. CLARKSON: Please proceed. KAY: If I can turn your attention to the screen. Again, this is an application for a Special Permit. The subject parcel is located in the Puna District of Hawaii Island; more specifically, in the Pahoa area. For reference, generally running north -south through the slide, we've got the Pahoa Bypass Road. The subject parcel is here filled in, in red. We've got Pahoa Town mauka of the subject parcel. The Applicant is requesting a Special Permit to allow the development of a 3,600 -square foot farm and garden retail store and related improvements on 32,670 square feet of land. The 10V1111.11 11 proposed farm and garden retail store will stock and sell various products related to farming, animal care, and agriculture maintenance including the following: primarily Hawai'i grown agricultural products, vegetables, herbs, fruits, coconut trees, native plants, fragrant/seasonal flowers, ground covers, palms, trees, plants conductive to bee pollination, and medicinal plants; and other non-agricultural products including farm feed, scratch feed, pet food, dog and cat wormers, fish food, aquaculture products, plant pots, pesticides and herbicides, various birds, live fish, egg laying chickens, and agriculture related tools. Proposed improvements on the property include a 3,600 -square foot building including an office, storage, and retail space of display products and conduct transactions. Approximately 3,000 - square feet of outside nursery space to grown and house various live plants, a greenhouse, and a compacted gravel parking area with 15 regular parking stalls and one parking stall for—the disabled parking stall. Pardon me, I got a little excited here. The Applicant anticipates the need for seven full-time employees and one part-time employee for the business, and they are proposing the following hours of operation: Monday through Friday, 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., and Saturday and Sunday from 8 a.m. to 2 p.m. The Applicant is proposing to complete construction within one year of receiving all the necessary planning and building permits with an estimated cost of a $150,000. The subject—pardon me, the zoning for the subject parcel is Agricultural and is also surrounded by other Agricultural zoning and some Commercial and Residential zoning more consistent with Pahoa Town. Again, for reference, we've got Pahoa Bypass Road generally running north -south through the slide. The State Land Use designation for the subject property and much of the surrounding area is Agricultural as indicated in green, and I've got the Urban designation indicated in pink that's more consistent again with Pahoa Town. The General Plan Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide Map designates the subject parcel as Low Density Urban as indicated in the mustard color. Across the Bypass Road, you've got some Extensive Agriculture and Important Agriculture Lands and then Medium Density Urban, more of the orange color, is again consistent with Pahoa Town. The subject parcel is located outside of the Pahoa Regional Town Center boundary as was designated by the Puna Community Development Plan. The CDP designated two areas of Pahoa Town as part of that regional town center and that's indicated by these dashed lines. As you can see, the subject parcel is more makai and outside of that area. Here's an aerial photograph of the subject parcel and surrounding area. Again, we've got the Pahoa Bypass Road generally running north -south. This photograph shows the property being vegetated; however, the property has been cleared of the vegetation and graded, so it looks a little bit different on the ground today. The Applicant's submitted site plan, you've got now the Bypass Road on, running east -west on this image. The access would come off the Bypass Road toward the east, on the eastern side of the property and access a parking area here fronting the EXHIBIT E 2 Bypass Road with the proposed 3,600 -square foot warehouse, greenhouse here on the side, and then this area of the property would be the area for plants. Here are some views of the property from across the Pahoa Bypass Road. This is looking toward Pahoa High School here with the subject property on the right-hand side. Again, that area is showing as being cleared of vegetation. A little bit closer view here of the subject area, and this is looking directly across of the pardon me, the access, the driveway access. And, again, the area has been cleared and graded. Here are some views of the Pahoa Bypass Road looking north and that's these areas here. The Pahoa Bypass curves in this area. The subject driveway access is roughly in this area, and as you can see, you may not be able to see it, this little white speck here is the top of our County vehicle. We parked there as we were taking photographs, so there's some difficulty, would be some difficulty in seeing traffic coming around with this bank here. And, again, we've got looking to the north a little bit closer, and this photograph was taken from the driveway, so it's just showing the access again curving around to the north. On the right-hand side, we've got views of the bypass looking south, and the subject property is on the right-hand side and, again, this was taken from sitting inside the vehicle showing, looking toward the high school as well with some difficulty seeing around the curve there. Pardon me, let me go back, and again this is that bank that's kind of in this area so. The Planning Director is recommending denial of this application for several reasons which include the proposed use will not promote the effectiveness and objectives of Chapter 205, HRS, as amended. The proposed use is inconsistent with the objectives to be sought to be accomplished by the Land Use Law and Regulations. The proposed use could unreasonably burden public agencies to provide infrastructure. There are some traffic safety concerns, and the request is contrary to both the General Plan and Puna Community Development Plan in terms of location of the business on the parcel. I'm just going through some of those reasons here in a little more detail. The request openly fails to establish an effective land use pattern in the area. Pahoa Town has been established as kind of a central commercial area for these types of services in this particular section of Puna, and the proposed retail commercial use will be located outside of that commercial area and along the Pahoa Bypass Road which really just functions to be that, a bypass to move traffic around Pahoa Town quickly. It was not meant to provide an access to a secondary commercial corridor. Thus, the proposed retail and commercial use is an inappropriate land use for this particular area. There are some concerns about setting a precedent here saying okay, we'll put a commercial business here and then the next guy wants to come and do a commercial business and then it kind of counteracts the idea of this being a by—it's no longer a bypass. It's a secondary commercial corridor. The proposed use is inconsistent with the objectives to be sought to be accomplished by the Land Use Law and Regulations, and it could unreasonably burden public agencies to provide infrastructure. The Planning Department has sought to concentrate retail commercial and similar type of uses within Pahoa Town to focus traffic and related infrastructure improvements within EXHIBIT E 3 this localized area. There is potential for encouraging strip commercial development that may attract the infilling of lands along the Pahoa Bypass by other commercial developments, and such strip development would create rapid growth, could create rapid growth increase and adverse impacts to traffic as multiple access points would be required for such developments. The County currently has no plans to provide infrastructure to accommodate commercial uses along the Pahoa Bypass Road; therefore, it would not be prudent to sanction to spread of such traffic generating commercial uses. Again, we talked about some traffic safety concerns. The Planning Department and members of the public have serious public safety concerns over the potential traffic hazards caused by locating a retail/commercial use along the Pahoa Bypass Road, and particularly in this area that's along a curve. It's—the parcel is located on the inside of a blind curve of the Bypass Road on a hill with limited sight distance potentially making turning movements in and out of the proposed business hazardous and impeding traffic functions on the Bypass Road. We got some comments from the Department of Transportation. This is a Department of Transportation road so to determine that the access is safe and appropriate for commercial uses, State DOT is recommending that prior to the Planning Commission granting a Special Permit, the Applicant be required to submit an access assessment prepared by a professional engineer for review and acceptance by the DOT. The assessment should include verification of sight distance and an evaluation of the driveway for commercial operation, the idea here being that if DOT is not going to grant access for a commercial use here, it doesn't make sense for the Planning Commission to approve a Special Permit. The Applicant has chosen not to conduct the required access assessment prior to the Planning Commission hearing. The Planning Director cannot support a Special Permit for a commercial use if safe access for that commercial use cannot be ensured. Sorry, we're going to switch out our presenters here. Not me, the technology. Pardon me, sorry about this. So, the request is contrary to the General Plan and Puna Community Development Plan. Specifically, the General Plan has a course of action that is explicit about where commercial activities should be in this area. It says, "Centralization of commercial activities in Pahoa Town, rather than along the Pahoa Bypass, to serve the residents of Lower Puna shall be encouraged." The subject property is located outside of the Pahoa Regional Town Center boundaries designated in the Puna CDP; therefore, it's inconsistent with the preferred CDP land use pattern. And, in response to the CDP being adopted in 2008, the County Council in 2012 passed Ordinance 12-89 amending the Land Use Pattern Allocation Guide Map in the area to support the concept of developing Pahoa as a regional town center by designating the land area for higher density urban uses in the town center and directing commercial and industrial uses away from the Pahoa Bypass. EXHIBIT E 4 Finally, the Planning Director typically does not recommend approval for Special Permits on lands located in Urban General Plan designations as changing the zoning of the property is a more suitable land use entitlement process than a Special Permit. I just want to point out, too, at the beginning of this process, the Applicant's representative came in, and we talked story about all of these issues, and we did indicate to them at that time that this was an inappropriate location for this, and generally for the reasons that we've highlighted here. They've chosen to move forward with the request so based on those reasons that we stated, the Planning Director is recommending that the Commission deny the application for a Special Permit in this area. I'd be happy to answer any questions that the Commission may have on my presentation. CLARKSON: Are there any questions from the Commission? I have a question, and it has to do with access. Christian, if you could put up the map that shows the property along with the rest of the Pahoa area. One more, there, well actually the aerial. KAY: Okay. Hold on one second. Okay. CLARKSON: Now, there looks to be a road that goes from the center of Pahoa out to this area. Is there no access to that property from that road? KAY: Yeah, it's my understanding that the access to this property, single access to the property is off of the Bypass Road. So, there is—this road is not actually a complete road, and I don't believe, I believe it's a private road. I'm not sure. I don't believe it's a County road at that point. In conversation with the Applicant's representative, they indicated that might be a possibility to pull access off of there. I suspect you'd still have similar issues with DOT requiring the sight distance and access type of question or access review question there. CLARKSON: Well, my question was, is there any possibility for access to this parcel from not using any part of the Bypass Road? KAY: I don't believe it touches. Are you talking about coming from Pahoa? CLARKSON: Right. KAY: Maybe have the Applicant try to address that, but again, I believe that's across several easements across several parcels, so they'd CLARKSON: Okay KAY: have to get an easement to go that way. AGUINALDO: I think that what Mr. Chair was talking about, that easement, you know, growing up in Pahoa, on the left-hand side, when I was a little boy, we used to call it the Cane Road, so that road was basically was just open. The County didn't maintain it, but you know EXHIBIT E 5 there were people that laid down gravel, and it's basically, yeah, it always was open I guess for anybody to use, but at the moment, it's being used with the Catholic Church. KAY: Yes. AGUINALDO: So, if there is, you know, gotta, if you need easement, I guess you know they would have to discuss things with Sacred Heart, maybe? KAY: And the other property owners that it crosses through if it's AGUINALDO: Right— KAY: Yeah. I just want to see—so that's generally coming through here, so maybe it's just the one property owner from Pahoa Village Road. It could just be Catholic Church. AGUINALDO: No, there's a loop around there, is actually, you see that loop, you know, I call `em tin shack. KAY: Yeah, yeah. AGUINALDO: But, that loop there, I think, you know, I cannot recall if County maintains that or if that was private. There's a private road that the community kind of put together and, you know, have access over there. So, as far as that there, is being used, you know day-to-day. KAY: Yeah, I'm told that's a private road. AGUINALDO: Yeah. CLARKSON: If there are no further questions from the Commission, will the Applicant and/or their representative please come forward? KERN: Good morning, Mr. Chair. CLARKSON: Good morning. I'd like to swear in—do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? QUINN: Yes, sir. [Mr. Kern was previously sworn in for another application.] CLARKSON: Thank you. Would either one of you introduce yourself and proceed. KERN: Sure, I'll start. Zendo Kern, planning consultant, representing the Applicant, Mr. William Quinn. This one is obviously a bit challenging, so I'd like to first start by hoping that you all keep an open mind because this is a bit of an explanation, a bit of a story. EXHIBIT E 6 The Applicant originally purchased the property, and he went to the County Planning Department with an agricultural base commercial—to get an agricultural based commercial operation certification, and based on ag land, that's something that you can do, and you can basically sell a majority of ag products. Due to the fact that he sold various products that didn't quite fit that criteria i.e. like a, you know, a herbicide or, you know, dog food, it didn't quite match up. When he originally purchased the property, he thought that he would be able to do that and get in, you know, have his business there. I think it's very important to understand that this application is primarily agriculture in nature. It's being deemed a commercial operation which by right, it is, but it's agricultural based, a commercial operation that's needed on ag land. And, if he didn't sell a few of these things that are needed in the community—dog wormers, cat wormers, dog food, etc., he'd be able to operate there just under ag without needing a Special Permit. So, Mr. Quinn bought the land went in there thinking he could get the agriculture operation certification done. Basically, it got said no you can't do that and the only way to do it is by way of a Special Permit. He contacted me, we talked about it. We realized that the location of this area does have some challenges. If he was going to be doing a convenience store, we would not be sitting here, but because this is primarily ag based, we're here to make our argument, and we have some people here that have a long history and knowledge of the Pahoa area, the community development plan, and they will be able to share some of their insight. But, before we get into more of the details on it, I'd like to have Mr. Quinn tell his story. Mr. Quinn? QUINN: Mr. Chairman and the Commission, thank you very much for this opportunity. My name is William Quinn. I've been in Hawaii for 45 years, married for 43, four children ranging in ages from 27 to 42, 8 grandchildren. I currently work at Pahoa Feed & Fertilizer. We are a small family owned and operated business with seven employees. We have been serving this community for the past 19 years, and it has been a privilege and an honor for our family to serve the community. We served the community through the housing crisis and recession. We served the community through 2014's lava flow, and we're still serving the community through May's lava flow. Fifty percent of our business is a nursery; fifty percent is retail. I don't know if you folks have a list of our nursery items, but it is kind of extensive. On November 2nd, I received some documents from the Planning Department. There are a few issues in this document that I would like to clarify. First of all, on page 1, under Findings of Fact, item 1, the first paragraph, they forgot to mention that 400 feet southwest of the parcel, there is a traffic light which is located near the Pahoa High School at an intersection that has been controlled by this traffic light for the traffic flow. On page 2, hours of operation. I just now let Zendo know that we will close on Sunday. Item number 6 supporting information, the Ogasawara family and the Hoota family are not involved in this project. It is our family solely. Planning Department Exhibit 4. We received a letter from the Department of Transportation on Punchbowl Street in Honolulu. In the first paragraph, it is noted that 45 miles and 55 miles is the speed limit posted on the Pahoa Bypass. The Pahoa Bypass section of road that's in question EXHIBIT E 7 starts at the roundabout with a posted speed limit of 20 miles per hour. After leaving the roundabout heading towards the lot, you will hit the Post Office Road and HAAS intersection. It is posted at 35 miles per hour. From the roundabout to the traffic light, it's a one -mile stretch of highway. It is not 45, and it is not 55. The second paragraph, "The Special Permit is being sought to allow the proposed operation to sell various imported projects [sic -products], which the application indicates would promote business viability, otherwise the permit would not be required." Our family does not import items. Everything that comes into the State, seeing how we live on an island, is shipped to us. We do not have containers coming in. We buy our inventory locally. We are not a commercial operation. We're a green industry. Fifty percent of our business is a nursery. All products are bought locally. There is also a letter from the Department of Land and Natural Resources, Engineering Division. It's in regards to the water buildup on that highway. Hydroplaning was one of the complaints. There is a sump at the intersection of that cane road that Gilbert had brought up. That sump is located outside of our parcel right at the intersection. That sump has a huge metal pipe running underneath the highway. As it rains heavily, the water comes down the road, hits the sump, goes underneath the highway. That particular sump has to have preventive maintenance done on it. I'm not badmouthing the State or the County. They do a terrific job. However, preventive maintenance on that sump and cleaning that pipe that runs underneath the highway would eliminate a lot of the concerns about hydroplaning. Planning Department Exhibit 6. We had received a letter from a young lady named Candace Walker. On the third paragraph, she says it's a single entrance/exit driveway connecting directly to Highway 130. It is not a single entrance. Department of Transportation, before we purchased the property, expressed to me that we needed 22 feet entrance with sides going in. The permitted access the Department of Transportation gave to this particular parcel is 30 feet, 1 inch. Also Ms. Walker mentioned a perfect example of the daily hazard motorist encounter every morning and afternoon as where Post Office Road intersects with Highway 130. That is 1,800 feet away from our lot. That is her concern, another hazard the driveway would be located as water run- off I just expressed to you about the sump and the pipe having to have preventive maintenance. She wrote this causes motorists to hydroplane. I have not experienced that. I've lived in the neighborhood for 25 years. On the third paragraph, she writes, "the county links Highway 130 to Old Pahoa Road which is also the access for the HOPE Services lava evacuees temporary shelters." That was also the road that Gilbert had pointed out. That road is clear now, but there is a gate which prevents you—the people from HOPE Services have to enter their little buildings from Jan's Barber Shop side. Off the Highway 130, the road is closed. Entry to HOPE Services is from Jan's Barber Shop. There was also another letter of opposition from a gentleman by the name of James Weatherford. On the third paragraph, "The driveway to this parcel is located on a hill and curve with limited line of sight, a few hundred feet from the intersection of State Route 130..." There is a traffic light that controls the flow of traffic by Pahoa High School with left turns. If it's a big issue, we would love to have it so we could right turn into the lot, right turn out, which would avoid the far EXHIBIT E 8 lane. Mr. Weatherford feels also that big trucks and trailers would be coming in blocking the highway. This has not happened in the 19 years I've been serving the community of Pahoa. Commercial farmers go to town. Commercial farmers buy fertilizer tonnage. Our price is a retail price. Its $5 more a bag for a 50 -pound bag of fertilizer. Commercial farmers usually buy tonnage, two tons, one ton. There's 40 bags per ton. At a $5 cost per bag, it would run the farmers $250 more per pallet. We have never had commercial farmers come into our store in the 19 years I've been there. It has been something that I wish we could have, but they prefer going and buying it wholesale as we do from Hilo. Those are the concerns I have with the County's letter, and I want to thank all of you for your special consideration in this matter, and that's what I have to say. KERN: Thank you, Mr. Quinn. CLARKSON: Are there any questions for Applicant from the Commission? Well, let me, let me resolve some confusion. You already own an existing business somewhere near this area? QUINN: Oh, yes, sir. Yes, sir for 19 years. CLARKSON: And, that's located where, please? QUINN: Old Government Road. Its right before the rubbish dump road in Pahoa. CLARKSON: Okay. QUINN: I would like to add one more thing, Joseph. Viability for our family to move to one of the strip malls, the issue with that is the strip malls charge right now Puna Kai, $3 a square foot. The building we're looking at is $3,600. The Puna Kai Shopping Center also requests maintenance fee per thousand square feet of $69 a month. They also would like to look at your books and take money, ten percent, of your gross profits. So, the viability of us to move to one of these locations that the State or County feels is more acceptable is not there. It would cost us over $10,000 a month in fees and rent. If we go this route with putting up a building—we're working with the small business across the street, First Hawaiian Bank, a monthly payment of putting up a building like that would probably anywhere from two to three thousand dollars a month. CLARKSON: And why is it that you can't just stay where you are? QUINN: The building that we're in where we are presently was built in 1967. It's over 50 years old. It's run down; the roof leaks. The people that own the land behind us, because the parcel we're on is a ten -acre parcel subdivided in seven lots. The people behind us regraded their lot. SIRACUSA (from audience): Without a permit. QUINN: Yeah, that was without a permit, but when it rains heavy, that water rushes down our driveway, goes into our warehouse, our office. We have to put sandbags out, and it creates a EXHIBIT E 9 situation. The roof is over 50 years old, and the existing building that we're in now, it leaks, and we feel in our heart the people of Pahoa, the Puna area, deserve a nice, new location. We only receive 40 to 60 customers a day at the most. It's not a heavily trafficked road now, that section of Highway 130. We started this last year November. We never anticipated the May lava flow which wiped out—so the doesn't have that heavy traffic flow anymore because all the houses are gone. Entrance is through Hawaiian Beaches now for people down in Wa`a Wa`a. They don't come up through Nanawale area, Pohoiki. All that ceased. It's kind of desolate over there in that area right now, and with the traffic light they have right by the Pahoa High School, that regulates the flow of traffic. The other thing, the line of sight. And, again, I am not badmouthing County or State. I had gone out there and did a before picture of a left and right turn and an after picture left and right turn. The after picture picture showed where I went out on a Monday and cleared the highway of the eight- to ten -foot California grass. At the time I went out there, you couldn't see the guardrail. The weeds were so tall, the line of sight was impaired. After I went out all day Monday and mowed down that whole California grass, the line of sight was considerably better, and I just wanted to show that. Now, if you go on the road now, it's all burned, cut, guardrails are visible. This was something that had started after we tried to make our point about a line of sight issue. Thank you. KERN: Mr. Chair, if I could expand on this, just questions for Mr. Quinn right now. If I could just expand on that. Yeah, the line of sight has been greatly improved. The Applicant is also willing to do a right -turn in, right -turn out only which would definitely mitigate a lot of traffic concerns there, safety issues, and again, with the State Department of Transportation's letter being inaccurate as far as speed limit goes, I think that's also a major consideration. Because 45, 55 is much different than 35, which is actually is 35. The—another point that's made in here is about the traffic engineer traffic study. The Applicant, you know, he's put a lot out, a lot of time, effort, and money out into this already, and with the challenge of this to go and pay for an engineer to do that right now with the uncertainty of this permit, just, it's just too much. But, I think it's very clear that the Applicant wants things to be safe. We've responded to every letter that's been there. Again, when he talks about the lava, traffic in the area has drastically reduced with the lava. It's reduced from a residence standpoint, and it's reduced from a tourism standpoint massively. Kapoho got a lot of tourism. Kapoho is gone. Kapoho is not coming back any time soon. Lower Puna is hurting; it needs help. And, you know, here's Mr. Quinn, who has been in business for 20 years out there just trying to continue to do that even in the face of adversity with such a hard economic climate in Puna. I'd also like to notate that we did pass out—you should have, Mr. Quinn put out a petition, and it showed, it talked about the permit. It gave all of the information. It showed the location. It showed the site plan. We have received approximately 258 signatures -258 signatures. We've received two letters of opposition as opposed to 258 signatures. People took the time to write their name, their address, sign it, date it. I think that says a lot. It also showed `em where it was. I think that says a lot as well. EXHIBIT E 10 And, just to, because obviously, we can probably have another round at this. I'm not going to get into the vesting part of it. That's just a simple title issue with the Ogasawara's and the Hoota's. Mr. Quinn bought it. It's his property. Title is working that out. But, what I wanted to mention was, as most of you know, I served on the Planning Commission. I had the privilege of doing that in the past. I served for three years. I never missed a meeting. In three years, not once. And, there would be applications that would come in for Puna, and most of the times, those applications had a recommendation of denial. And, after about the sixth one, and a majority of those we talked about it, we discussed it, and out of about the sixth time we actually approved the application—so it came in as a denial, we had discussion, we had debate on it. I obviously had a pretty loud voice in there. We would—we would approve it. The Planning Commission would approve it. And, after the sixth time, I was having lunch with Bobbie Jean Leithead-Todd at that time after one of the Commission meetings, and I honestly felt bad `cause this is the sixth time I went against the Director. This is the sixth time. So, I leaned over to BJ, and I said BJ, I'm sorry, you know, I'm sorry I keep going against you, and, she said Zendo, don't worry about it. My job as a planning department, planning director is to do this, is to say hey if it doesn't meet this criteria, I have to stick with that `cause I can't have that latitude, but the Planning Commission, you guys as the Planning Commissioners, you guys do have that latitude. That's why you're here, and that's why you can make that decision. I think that's something very important to consider, and I respect that because we want, we need the Planning Department to stay on point, and to me, this does not set precedence. I think that's something also very, very, very important to consider. To me, this wouldn't set precedence. If this was doing a convenience store, a gas station there, that'd be a completely different story. This is an ag-based, local family business. The only reason that he can't do what he wants to do as the zoning is, is because he sells products that don't fit that criteria. I really appreciate everybody, all the Commissioners just considering this, thinking about it. If we have to continue this to have further discussion, we're open to it, but just please, please consider that, this, your guys' decision on this is paramount for Mr. Quinn and his family. Thank you. AGUINALDO: Mr. Chair, I have a question for Mr. Quinn. QUINN: Yes, sir. AGUINALDO: William, as far as your present location, what Mr. Chair asked, where you are presently located now, you don't own that, right? You're lease—renting or leasing from there, yeah? QUINN: Leasing. AGUINALDO: I see. QUINN: And, all I am is an employee over there. AGUINALDO: Uh-huh. QUINN: Yes, sir. EXHIBIT E 11 AGUINALDO: And, as far as—you know, I've been to that feed shop when our, my egg layers needed feed. I didn't want to go to town and, you know, it was there. So, all of my life, 46 years in Pahoa, never did have one feed shop. Never have nothing for farmers. Ourselves, we lost our farm in Kapoho, you know. Cannot help. Move on with life. But, across the street on the makai side, there's a lot of ag farm there we currently, you know, I got secured a lease, 22-1/2 acres to farm again papaya, bananas, whatever we gotta do. But, you know, as far as that there, there is a big track of ag farm in the back. So, I see your point of serving our community as far as the feed. You know, everybody get cattle and what not. And, again, yes, in our, you know, our Director, you know, Mr. Yee, gotta do what he gotta do. It's understandable. It's playing across the board. But, as far as what you do, you know my question is, if this application, we can go round and round or whatever, what would happen if never did work out. You know, that's my question to you. QUINN: What would happen is after 19 years of serving the community, and it has been a privilege, Gilbert, I promise you that, I'm not bankrolling nothing—if it was denied, I would wait about four months or so, I'd put a for sale sign on that lot, and Pahoa Feed & Fertilizer would close down, and that would be it. There would be no feed and fertilizer store like there has been the past 19 years, and people would have to start driving to Hilo to purchase those products. You had mentioned cattle. A lot of the farmers raising cattle, horses, ranches, they do not shop at Pahoa Feed & Fertilizer. We are a mom and pop store. We deal primarily for residential people. People that have large volumes of animals, large farms of papaya or whatever vegetables. They will definitely go to Hilo where they can buy the merchandise wholesale. We are a retail operation. We are not a wholesaler. We've never competed with the other operations around. It will kill a business fast. You cannot compete price wise out in Pahoa. But, back to your question, we would just close up. Probably close up by I would say December -January, early next year and then we would close up. AGUINALDO: So, there's a lot of consideration because, you know, with the event—now going back to lava, a lot of businesses has closed and, you know, Pahoa is my home. You know, it's, it was always my home and, you know, positive stuff Not competing—you're not competing with nobody. Positive solution you find, it's not like we all competing with the same feed shop or whatever you want to call it, but you were there first to serve our community on a positive way. Whatever recommendation, whatever this going plan out, I highly recommend a right -in, right -out. The question I have is back on the photos, where you guys brought in the car as far as access wise, so did the State grant that access or that was an access. You see the pavement? You know, they paved it. QUINN: That? AGUINALDO: Go back, the slide—yeah. QUINN: That piece of pavement was there— KERN: Use your microphone. EXHIBIT E 12 QUINN: That piece of pavement was there when we purchased the property. If you see the embankment on the left side AGUINALDO: Right. QUINN: —That, all the way to that pavement part, yes sir, that's a 30 -foot, one -inch permitted access by the State of Hawaii when they realigned the Bypass Road. AGUINALDO: Cause there's two SIRACUSA (from audience): There's two of those. AGUINALDO: Yeah, there's two. There's that one and right by Catholic Church, there's another one there. So, that's means of access that they made. Yeah, okay. QUINN: With the Catholic—with the Catholic Church, to get a permitted access from them off their property, we would have to go to the diocese on Oahu or wherever they're located. We would have to get it in writing from them that we would have permitted access. Infrastructure to put a road to come into the back of the lot, the costs would be too much for our small family that's trying to do this project. I noticed they had a budget of a 150,000. The budget actually total would be a little under 300. About $275,000. And, again, like I expressed, we're working with SBA; we're working with First Hawaiian Bank. It would be a 504A loan, 40 percent from the bank; 40 percent from SBA; 20 percent from our family. Our family has already contributed 26 percent by purchasing the lot, grading the lot, and just a small piece of fence on the lot. The grading was done because it's under one acre. There were concerns that we went in and ripped all the vegetation out. That is incorrect. All the big trees on that parcel were cut down, laid on the side of the road, picked up by a woodcarver, and all those big trees that were on that property are being utilized by this woodcarver to make wood products from a business that's in Pahoa right now across from Bank of Hawaii and First Hawaiian Bank. So, we utilized the wood. We just didn't throw it away or bury it. We had a concern for the `Hina. We love the community. My youngest son is a 13, Dagger from Pahoa, and like I said, I truly mean it's been a privilege to serve that community through all the hard times. We've always had kind words for the community when they came in. There have been instances where someone would come in down on their luck, they gotta feed their animals. We just give `em the feed. We help the churches in the area, the schools, the community, fundraisers, basketball, football. This is 19 years. We paid our taxes, State, Federal, FICA. We've got medical plans for three of the employees. We're doing everything above board. Nothing's hidden. And, that's just the way we've been, but in the end, we're not bankrolling. I guarantee you it's not a situation where we have kangaroo pockets walking around. Yeah, that's not the case. It's just a passion we have. But, we would close up, Gilbert. AGUINALDO: Thank you. QUINN: You're very welcome. EXHIBIT E 13 CLARKSON: If there are no further questions, thank you. We have, I guess we'll do public testimony now. We have three people signed up: Jon Olson, Rene Siracusa, and James Ozone. James may have left, so two people. Raise your right hand please, sir. Do you swear or affirm to tell the truth on this matter before the Commission today? OLSON/SIRACUSA: I do. CLARKSON: Please introduce yourself and proceed. SIRACUSA: Age before beauty. OLSON: Just barely. SIRACUSA: Okay, my name is Rene Siracusa, and I am president of Ma Lama O Puna which is an environmental non-profit focusing on the Puna District. But, we also have a strong agricultural support component in our exempt purpose, and that's why I'm here today in support of our local agriculture. To my mind, a Special Permit shouldn't even be required. We're looking at ag land, and we're looking at an applicant who for 19 years has provided, been providing and enabling ag support products and services to the local community. I have been a consumer of the product. I have been a client of Pahoa Feed & Fertilizer which is the business that it's been going under, the name that it's been going under before and now it's going to, as it moves, it's going to change the name to Pahoa Farm & Garden. It's the same thing. It's the same—it's a family business. When I was, before I retired and I was operating my farm pretty much full-time, granted a lot of the big shopping I did in Hilo, but when I needed so small items, just like a wormer for my goats, you know, I would go down to Pahoa Feed & Fertilizer. When, I would get a lot of cinder from them, I would get a lot of mac nut compost from them. I bought flower pots for my nursery, and feed for my animals. They were and still are a well-rounded provider to the community of the needs of nurseries, farms, ranches, and home gardeners. To me, that says, ag. It's very clear that that's what they do, is ag. They're not selling umbrellas; they're not selling dresses. You know, they're not cutting people's hair. They are providing agricultural services and products. Most of those are generated right here on this island because they, they buy from local importers. Granted, stuff comes from the mainland. Hey, we're an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Everything ultimately comes from the mainland, including us. So, one mainland or another, anyway. So, just to say that because some items that they, that they sell are originally—are originally produced on the mainland is a reason to say that they're not an agricultural resource to our community or I think is a logical inconsistency. Now, almost all of the Planning Director's objections that I saw on the screen are based on what I consider to be an inaccurate designation of the applicament. He's being designated as a commercial activity rather than an agricultural activity. And, the objections are based on the laws governing commercial activities. But, if he was a nursery, he would still be selling EXHIBIT E 14 products. Would that be considered commercial? No, it would be considered agricultural, and that's exactly what's happening here because a large portion of the, of the business is nursery. So, I think that I would also want to point out if you could go back to the map. Not that one, the other one, the one in the Puna Community Plan. KAY: Okay. SIRACUSA: That one. Okay, look at the insert in the upper right-hand corner. The property is within the Pahoa Regional Village Center. It's if you only look at the designation, you know, with a dotted, with dotted lines and the red and yellow, then the subject property appears to be outside, and it is, it's in ag. But, it is, if you look at the upper insert, within the Village Center. And, then if you look at the Puna Community Development Plan, right here it is, I've got a million of `em, I used to be on the Planning Commission. So, I ended up with a lot of copies. You will see that the Village Centers are supposed to be specifically for, for enhancing local, local business and providing quality agricultural land as dedicated to agricultural use and perpetuity. Puna agricultural products represent an increasing local market share—these are some of the goals. I'm looking right at the managing growth section of the, of the development plan, Section 3-8 through 11, and there are multiple places in which the objectives, the goals, and the actions say that ag is very important to Puna. Puna is the bread basket of this island, and any, any business that is supporting that is supporting agricultural production. I want to point out that the, one of the things that they do—oh I didn't know we had a time limit, that's something new. Okay, at any rate, I do want to point out that the Department of Transportation letter has some serious errors in it. It does not mention that between the roundabout and the subject property that there are several turn-offs already. There's one to go to the Longs Drugstore. There's another one on the other side that goes to Kahakai Boulevard. You saw some pictures of that stub -out you were talking about. There are numerous stub -outs along that section. There's Post Office Road and the opposite side of it goes to HAAS, the Hawaii Academy of Arts and Sciences which has heavy school traffic twice a day. You know, there lots of places along that road where this is traffic calming. HDOT is talking about a 55 mile and—that's not what it is, it's 45. So, that HDOT letter was written from Honolulu, and they don't know what they're talking about. Please bear that in mind when you consider how much credence to give or stress to give their, their testimony. Thank you. CLARKSON: Thank you. Sir? OLSON: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, I'm here basically representing Pahoa Mainstreet. I'm the vice-president of that organization. All of the things Rene has just recounted is entirely accurate. We, as an organization, as an organization that is promoting business in Pahoa Town, support what these people want to do. It is more appropriate, the area that they have chosen in that our, our goal at this point is to become more of a visitor -oriented place to create more jobs in Pahoa, right? She stated quite accurately that the whole concept of the Bypass is long gone. They put in a roundabout that gets you in there at 20 miles an hour. It goes into a complex of streets that, and EXHIBIT E 15 turn pockets and other things that get you either into Pahoa or on the road down to Kahakai and Hawaiian Beaches, Hawaiian Shores. Then, within less than a quarter of mile, you are in a 35 mile an hour school zone. Either side of HAAS, which as was stated earlier, you end up with a distance of less than a thousand feet before you are to his driveway. That road that you were trying to identify? That is a road -in - limbo. That goes back to when there was a railroad that ran into Pahoa. That road alignment also was created to connect to the very first Nanawale ag lots subdivision which still exists out there. So, whether it is a County road or a State road, it precedes the County. Let's just say that. Neither the State or the County want to accept it. I'll point out to you that my name is in the Puna Community Development Plan because I chaired the document, and our whole point of this was to create economic development, make jobs for the people that live in Puna. This morning, if I had not come to this meeting, I would have met with Don Smith, the chief engineer for the county along with Pahoa Main Street. One of our topics with him other than the maintenance of the roundabout would have been the necessity for them to put a school zoning speed limit as you approach the high school which is basically going to turn that entire Bypass into a 35 mile an hour zone. That's just what has to happen to make it safe. So, the traffic issues, it's a small parcel. It is on ag land. I can't—we could see no possible reason other than an addition to a requirement of a right -in, right -out so there is no crossing traffic for them not to be there. And, it's more appropriate for the type of business that they want to do, and we want them to continue to do. So, if there's any questions, I'd be happy to answer them. IKEDA: It's either to you or Rene. If we approve this particular parcel, you guys understand it's commercial OLSON: —Well, I mean IKEDA: —Okay, let me finish. OLSON: Okay, go ahead. IKEDA: Ok, so the idea is you guys, you guys know I'm a strong business guy, and you know how I'm leaning, but I want you guys to realize because I know you guys are strong environmental, just opposite of me. So, you guys understand it, we approve this, it's open to everyone. In other words, the whole area can be commercialized because once you approve one, everyone—am I wrong Director? That once we approve one, it's possible that other commercial can apply because we set the precedent? YEE: Well, as Christian had presented, there is that fear that once we make this decision, it opens up the floodgates. EXHIBIT E 16 IKEDA: And so that's—that's my feeling because I'm thinking about you guys because I remember the problem when I didn't approve with a lot of the things you guys did on the Puna CDP, and so, but I went with it. We voted for it. So, I follow it. And, this is what I'm saying that are you guys open to the whole area? It might change, and that's all I'm saying. I want to hear your guys' comments. OLSON: I mean the document itself is 12 going on 13 years old. We should have started an entirely new planning process already for the whole area. I mean that hasn't happened. The document has outlived its usefulness and, yes, I mean, there is going to be, we want there to be more development. I mean, we have to look at a lot, a lot of things that we didn't look in the CDP. We really didn't investigate the hazard zones, but that doesn't mean that the people who live there now and the people have bought all those out, tens of thousands of lots that are out there, are gonna simply vanish. That isn't going to—the deed's been done. So, we have to, we have to make a plan that balances some way or another the hazards that are there, the necessity of providing work and recreation for the people who choose to live there. I mean, we've all [inaudible] in Hawaii. We know how we—we know the dog that brought us. So, going forward, we have to weave our way through this. The bypass is no longer a 55 mile an hour, it's no longer a 45 mile an hour, it's a 35 mile an hour road, and that's just, that's just the way it is. IKEDA: I want to hear from Rene because I want to hear her opinion because—Rene? SIRACUSA: Oh, I'm sorry. OLSON: You're up again. IKEDA: What's your opinion about if we approve, you know, you guys want us to approve something like SIRACUSA: I'm sorry I'm having trouble hearing you. OLSON: She's hard of hearing. You'll have to yell at her. IKEDA: I'll give you a hand sign. SIRACUSA: You have to hold them up. IKEDA: No, what happened is, if we approve this, it might open up commercialism for the whole area. Are you okay with this? OLSON: The development well—let me restate this for her so she can hear it. Okay, the area that we designated for economic development for Pahoa SIRACUSA: Yeah. OLSON: You're happy with that? EXHIBIT E 17 SIRACUSA: The original one? OLSON: The one that's in the book. SIRACUSA: No, it's not valid any longer. Things have changed. OLSON: But I mean, the thing is that, yeah, we know that it needs to be redone. SIRACUSA: But we still have to go with it until we can redo the, the CDP which is long over is already overdue for amending, yeah. IKEDA: I can say the two of you—the two of you really changed. SIRACUSA: Yeah. Times change here in certainly in Puna IKEDA: I mean the two of you really changed SIRACUSA: —They changed faster than anywhere else. I mean, we have the incredibly changing landscape, right? AGUINALDO: Mr. Commissioner, I have one. So, Rene, Jon, Mr. Quinn, Zendo, like what Commissioner Ikeda stated, if we approve this, there might be consequences that John Doe here want to commercialize this now. I see what Mr. Quinn is trying to achieve. We feel for you. I don't want to seeI don't want to be in your position. You're having a feed shop, but like what Mr. Ikeda said is that knowingly, it's considered like commercial, but I strongly, you know, for myself, II like your idea, but for us as Commissioners is understanding what we approve today is you going to have to accept, you know, the decision isI'd like to say `em in Hawaiian. You cannot make haka ka. Haka ka meaning you cannot grumble after -the -fact what is being said on black and white. You have to hold true to it. There's been times in Pahoa that commissioners approve it, next you know, whoom! What is this going on? We'd like to see growth. That's that's positive growth. When I say positive, it's not competing with pre-existing businesses in Pahoa trying to slice, you know, cut their throat and take over. You're unique. You're the only one that I've seen, but as commissioners, what we approve on a positive standpoint, it has to be hold true, you know, and I strongly feel, there's things that I cannot discuss as a commissioner where I sat, and like Mr. Ikeda said, you know, they changed. Yeah. So QUINN (from audience): Gilbert? AGUINALDO: Yes? QUINN (from audience): Can I say one more thing? AGUINALDO: Please come in the mic. SIRACUSA: Can I, can I respond to that? EXHIBIT E 18 QUINN: I heard the word floodgates. I also heard Donald say he's a businessman. AGUINALDO: Yeah. QUINN: The Puna Kai Shopping Center started out with a budget of 40 million. Actually, the first owner of that property couldn't get financing. From what I heard, the budget for Puna Kai now is up to 80 million. Floodgates. With the lava activity that we're having, I don't think floodgates is an appropriate word. I think people like our family that's trying to set up a little feed and fertilizer store on the bypass might be considered crazy, but that's all I really wanted to say. AGUINALDO: Rene? SIRACUSA: Well, I wanted to say first of all that what's in black and white is calling this applicant's business commercial when in actual fact it is in agricultural support service and agricultural products, and it's going on, it's been—it's been requested for ag land. I don't see a conflict. And, I think that the objections are based on that mis-definition. And, this is a really important point because a lot of those objections would disappear if you just agree that that what it is. As a matter of fact, years ago, years ago, this applicant applied to, was considering adding on another service to the community, and it was going to be a commercial kitchen for all sorts of entrepreneurs in Puna to share. Sort of like a cooperative basis, and it would create value added products from local produce. And, the Planning Commission decided that that was an agricultural acceptable use and granted the permit. Eventually, what happened was it didn't happen, but that's another point. The point is that just for that alone, they were already granted an agricu—there isn't, I don't know how far back you looked, Michael, you know, but there was already a decision by the Planning Commission in the past to call one of their proposed projects a bonafide agricultural application. AGUINALDO: So, Commissioner and Director, what they started, the Puna CDP, of being outdated, so that would have to be whatever decisionI don't know the protocol because Director Yee is just following what was on the, you know SIRACUSA: —Its supposed to be generated from the Planning Department. AGUINALDO: Right. So, would that be updated then on our Puna CDP? How does that work? SIRACUSA: One of the considerations, I think, is, was about creating a corridor, you know, like along the bypass. They didn't want it to become all commercial, and I understand that. I totally support that, except that I don't consider this commercial, and I also feel that hey, you guys opened the floodgates when you approved Woodland Center with Longs and Burger King and all of that. So, you know, you can't close the door after the, the barn door after the horse has left. OLSON: Well, if I can just, my 2 cents, and I'll go away. The County of Hawaii and the State of Hawaii. The County—the State of Hawaii allowed, and the County of Hawaii permitted, some 40 to 50,000 lots out there surrounding Pahoa. All these subdivisions. You sold the lots. People own them. Individuals own them. You will provide the services to them. I mean, that's EXHIBIT E 19 just the way it rains out. Okay, it's, most of it is in high hazard zones 1 and 2, as we all now know. I knew. I knew what the crack in the backyard meant, but nonetheless they're there. So, you're going to provide, you're going to allow for services to be provided by the people who are willing to risk their money, like Woodland, they're investing a lot of money. It's a roll of the dice. The lava could be coming down there tomorrow afternoon. Right? But, they got the bucks. They're rolling the dice that they're going to win this one, and as all of the other people, whether knowingly or unknowingly who purchased the land, and have gone out there and built something or are sitting on the land with the intention of living on it, they've rolled the dice, too. So this is, this is just one more little step in that equation. Every place you go has hazards. You move to California, they have giant earthquakes. We have tidal waves here. This whole thing could be gone tomorrow. CLARKSON: Okay, I think we OLSON: We beat that horse to death. REPLOGLE: I'm sorry, but you said this plan was done 13 years ago? OLSON: Yeah. REPLOGLE: Okay, I don't know what they told you when you started planning, but in Ka`u, they told us to plan for 25 years, and admittedly, it took us ten to finish the plan, but we did finish it, and I personally support the CDP's and that line where you drew the town center and everything? OLSON: Mm-hmm. REPLOGLE: That's important. When we start chipping away at that, it's going to be the end of all the CDP's, and I'm sorry, I know it sounds harsh, I don't mean to be flippant, but you made this bed, and I don't want to harm all the other CDP's by saying okay, we'll make an exemption for you and as my fellow commissioners stated, you open the floodgates. So, now OLSON: —Yeah, we do REPLOGLE: hang on, so now, when we have our coastal setback in Ka`u, we have people coming in and saying well, you let a commercial interest and we can quibble over whether it's commercial or ag, I lean towards the ag, but he's still selling stuff You let a commercial interest in in an area that was outside the town limits in Pahoa, I want to build right on the coast in Ka`u. You gave them that, why not me? And, I feel we need to stick with these CDP's as they were written. True, mistakes can be made, and adjustments could be made, but this is—this is, it's going outside what you planned for. Anyway, that's my opinion. I guess you know how I'll vote. YEE: So HALL: Well, they can go sit down, right? Or are you still talking to them? EXHIBIT E 20 CLARKSON: Well, I don't know whether—are you going to ask a question of the testifiers? YEE: No, I'm not asking a question. CLARKSON: Oh, hold on a second then. Are there any further questions for the testifiers here? If not, thank you. Please be seated. Go ahead. YEE: I want to clarify my term of floodgates. I think it's really important. You know, within the Planning Department, we see numerous requests to do things on ag land because it typically is the cheapest land that we have on the island, so everybody has the greatest idea `cause it's the cheapest land they can get, and so we get a bunch of ideas for things. So, it's not necessary I expect a huge multi-million dollar project to be going all along the bypass, but it will invite every person who has some kind of bright idea `cause it's cheap and it's certainly the land's probably not getting more expensive recently, to want to invite a Special Permit idea. Okay, so that's what I meant by that. I also wanted to be clear that part of what led me to the denial recommendation is the absence of an access study. Right? If safety is such a big issue, you know, trying to have that to, to be able to analyze that would certainly be critical. I totally understand that as a small business owner, you're not a big developer, trying to expend funds before you have a permit is difficult, okay? Sometimes, impossible. I acknowledge that. I also during the presentation you heard that, you know, typically in an Urban zoned area, we take a look at rezones over a Special Permit. It doesn't always have to happen, but there were these other avenues, and we heard Christian start off that, you know, we had warned against kind of where we're at early on. The Applicant still wanted to bring it forward, and so, in the absence of some of these things, we still went with the denial. And, finally, there was a comment around all the substandard lots in the Puna area. I really want to be clear that Puna is substandard. Lack of water, lack of sewer. Recently, I was accused that I have a bias against Puna. It's not that I have a bias against Puna, but through General Plan, through CDP, we have tools which we can use to increase the growth rate or decrease the growth rate, and when we have substandard areas, we look at tools that possibly could slow down the growth rate because we can't keep up with, with, you know, the demands in the substandard area. So, we're in this job of trying not to, try to provide for folks while trying not to perpetuate a greater problem for the County, and it's a difficult challenging situation. The lava eruption certainly has exasperated trying to find that correct balance. So, no easy answers but I wanted folks to understand my perspective on this. CLARKSON: If there are noI think we'll wait Zendo until there's discussion. Let's get through the closing of public testimony if there's a motion for that. IKEDA: Move to close public testimony. EXHIBIT E 21 REPLOGLE: Second. CLARKSON: All those in favor? COMMISSIONERS: Aye. CLARKSON: Opposed? Public testimony is closed. Now is the time where we have to consider a motion for action and further discussion and, Zendo, if you'd like to come up and make one more quick point before we have a motion. KERN: I would like to make a quick couple points as brief as I can. First one is in relation to Commissioner Replogle's comments about the mapping there. That was a major issue when that was done in the CDP. It should have been amended. What happened was, pass it now, amend it later. That didn't happen. The guy who made those maps was not really in tune with the community. Therefore, in the CDP, this is quoting it, "the maps shown in this chapter are not meant to be precise or strictly interpreted but rather as guidelines in the preparation of rezonings in the area or use permits in that way." [Sic.] So, there's a provision in the CDP, just so you're aware of it to give it some of that latitude so I hope that makes it a little easier for you. With regards to the access, looking at the access and the engineering side of it, I think that should be done as a condition. I think that if you folks decide to approve it, put that in as a condition. Let `em work it, but at least he knows he's not throwing good money away. It's already hard enough. Puna and Pahoa has already been hit hard enough as it is, and I'm going make this final point or two maybe, you're not the only director that has the hard challenge with Puna. Puna has been challenged and that's why even when I was on the Commission, it was the same thing. It's just hard geographically planning. It's bloody hard. That's why special and unusual circumstances like we do in Special Permits are relevant, and that's what we have in this situation with that, with the greater though of planning. But, most of you know, we have a project in Pahoa. Look at the room. Look at the testifiers. Look at the petitions. Look at the letters. Doing something in Pahoa or Puna is one of the most controversial hardest places to do it on the island. You have guys lined up, signs up, don't do it, do it, controversial, right? I mean, that's what generally happens in Pahoa and Puna. We have 250 signatures. We have two strong voices of Pahoa. We have hardly—we have two letters that are against it. This is baffling to me in an amazing way because I was expecting something much, much, you know, who knows what happens in Puna. So, just think, I think that's really important to consider. Really no opposition. I'll be quiet now. Thank you. AGUINALDO: People change, Zendo. People change. CLARKSON: All right, do we have a motion for action on this item? While they are thinking about it since the Chair is not supposed to make a motion, I would like to make a few comments. I would tend to support the Director's recommendation and would simply because of the CDP process. I mean, if all you folks are right in saying that the CDP is irrelevant now, it's gotta be revised, get it revised. Get your community together. Revised the darn thing. We kind of have to trust the community when they tell us what they want. We've been through this with the Hamakua—I've only been on the Commission for a couple of years, but I've been through two EXHIBIT E 22 CDP approvals. I mean, why do we do that unless we're going to trust that the CDP is the community's wishes, and this looks to me like a commercial business outside of the area that the CDP indicates. I would be willing to consider approving a Special Use Permit if the access were not off the Bypass Road. If the access were actually coming from Downtown Pahoa and you had maybe a landscaping frontage on the road, you get your easement from whoever is required. A gravel road for 40 or 50 cars a day is not going to be a horrendous liability. I would be much more willing to support a Special Use Permit if the access, if the bypass were not the access to the property. So, anyway, those are my comments. Do we have a motion? KERN: Could Iso, I apologize. Could we maybe request a continuance to allow him to get into that? To allow this to settle? To carry this conversation on? CLARKSON: You're certainly welcome as far as I'm concerned. KERN: That would be the request. AGUINALDO: Okay, there's a lot to digest on this one—there's a lot to digest on this. The reason why is that my colleague is looking at that. My heart follows what my heart follows. But, there's a lot of consideration that I hope you guys are listening right now. There is—we're just here to serve our community, serving `em well. You're here to serve our community providing services. So, I just think that, you know, there's a lot for us to digest that we have to take the consideration of possibly going round two on this matter depending on what Director and our Chairman is going to consider and at least gives you some time to do some homework that there is hope guys. You gotta work hard at it. There is hope, but you gotta work hard, yeah? QUINN: Yes, I really appreciate the consideration. When the Chairman mentioned the gravel road, that kind of changes the dynamics. AGUINALDO: The whole reason why is the Highway 130, the Bypass, that's the QUINN: —The gravel and concrete is a big difference in cost. A gravel road to support 40 to 60 cars a day is something that's feasible. If the Planning Director, Mr. Yee, was requesting concrete roads, this and that, and plus I would have to research the fact that we would have to get the right-of-way. I just thank every one of you for your consideration. AGUINALDO: Going work. Yeah, you gotta ask. CLARKSON: Thank you. QUINN: Thank you. CLARKSON: Do we need to continue HALL: —You need a motion. EXHIBIT E 23 CLARKSON: Motion to continue. HALL: Or motion, whatever motion they want to make. KAY: So, I've just been told that as you make your motion, make it clear that continuation is at the request of the Applicant, and we need to kind of get an idea of when we want to continue to. AGUINALDO: I make a motion to have a continuation of Mr. Quinn, Applicant, SPP 18- 000199, to be granted an extension of two months, 60 days, that what was being considered, you do your homework, you bring `em back to the table, and go for round two. QUINN: Yeah, seeing how the holidays are approaching. AGUINALDO: Yeah. QUINN: Yeah, I think two months, and I appreciate that. AGUINALDO: In that 60 days, come well prepared of every angle, whatever angle you can come up with and, you know, that—but that's so true. You know, if we not coming off of Highway 130, it's a different dynamic. HALL: Commissioner? AGUINALDO: Oh. HALL: When, where—what is your motion? CLARKSON: He just made it. HALL: Oh, okay, okay. CLARKSON: Is there a second. IKEDA: Second. CLARKSON: Okay, it's been moved to at the request of the Applicant, to continue this matter for two months. It's been seconded. All those in favor? COMMISSIONERS: Aye. CLARKSON: Opposed? Motion carries. EXHIBIT E 24 The discussion ended at 1:01 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Sarah Y. Hata-Finley, Secretary Windward Planning Commission 25 10V1111.11 11