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JBF: We don’t think it’s birds at all, um, again it’s in the sap way – if we had woodpeckers, <br />maybe, yeah, but we don’t. And they’re not gonna interact with it. But, you’re right, and <br />like I say it’s a complicated – there are many ways the trees get injured, I mean, another <br />way we that we often see it – someone puts in a fence line, right, and they cut down a <br />row of trees, cut branches or someone puts in a driveway… <br /> <br />AA: \[Unclear\] their property then it damages the neighbor’s property. We see that all over. <br /> <br />JBF: All of those things happen. I saw someone go in – an old ranch that had grown up waiwi <br />under big, old ohia and they went in with a mechanical clearing but he scalped all the <br />roots of the big old trees and then they died. <br /> <br />AA: Yeah. <br /> <br />JBF: There’s a lot of reasons and I’m just trying to think of what can we manage. We can’t <br />manage the hurricanes, ah, yeah, so you know that part of the equation we can’t <br />manage… <br /> <br />AA: Oh, Mr. Friday, our job is to help protect our game and our forests and we as – us as <br />being commissioners we also gotta find that happy medium but we protect our <br />resources at the same time too – as our forests. So it’s like you can’t just pick on a <br />simple thing, which is the ungulates, when you can’t say, ah, let’s say the Hawaiian crow <br />or the Hawaiian hawk went and landed on a tree and broke a branch – now the branch <br />is broken now they just infected the tree or a rat went inside and started digging in the <br />tree – you can’t just blame the simple things is what I’m trying to get at. <br /> <br />JBF: Yeah, no, absolutely, there are a lot of different causes but we really believe and based <br />on the side by side – they’re not experiments like we put in a fence to see what happen <br />but we go out in the forest and we see these areas. <br /> <br />AA: Well, Mr. Friday, the fence is already there so it’s, you guys didn’t put it in but the feds <br />did and the state did. Kinda like yes you did it even though it wasn’t the university, you <br />know what I’m saying. <br /> <br />JBF: Well, just what I’m saying is it’s not a real pure experiment – we’re observing what <br />we’re seeing on the land but these… <br /> <br />AA: That’s what’s existing, you’re right, I agree with you on that… <br /> <br />JBF: It’s pre-existing things… <br /> <br />AA: Yeah. But let’s say if all that fence wasn’t there and the hunters and the community that <br />was fighting against the fence actually didn’t put, you know, the state didn’t win – it <br />didn’t get all the fence in those areas then what would you guys research on. <br />22 <br /> <br /> <br />