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LINDSEY:Generally it would depend on, it would depend on the, how the definition <br />of cemetery is being identified. <br />KRUEGER:Okay. If they are, if these graves are in identified locations in what€s been <br />identified as a cemetery is it your experience that they would-. If there was nothing that was <br />going to be done to disturb those existing sites, would it be your experience that somebody <br />would need to submit a burial treatment plan if there was no intent to disturb those and they were <br />within an existing identified cemetery? <br />LINDSEY:Our ability to require someone to do a burial treatment plan ties into our <br />review of a permit. <br />KRUEGER:Okay. Section 6E-43 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes describes prehistoric <br />and historic burial sites. And it says that any site other than a known maintained actively used <br />cemeterywherehumanskeletalremainsarediscoveredorareknowntobeburiedandappearto <br />be over 50 years old, the remains in their associated burial shall not be moved without the <br />Department€s approval. In this particular case the location of gravesite A and gravesite B were <br />known and had actively buried remains within a year prior to or at the same time Mr. Ibbetson <br />was constructing the house right? <br />LINDSEY:From my understanding yes. <br />KRUEGER:Okay. So if that€s the case would the Department have jurisdiction over <br />that site, under this definition? <br />LINDSEY:No. <br />KRUEGER:Okay. <br />LINDSEY:You€d also have to expand that definition to talk about maintained and, <br />but that€s always been a definition that€s kind of escaped the Department in terms of does <br />maintained mean people are cutting the grass? Does maintained mean people are visiting the <br />sites, leaving flowers, paying respects? <br />KRUEGER:When you went to the site were there flowers on the site? <br />LINDSEY:Burial site A. <br />KRUEGER:Okay. And if I told you that the deed between Mr. Ibbetson and the <br />church required Mr. Ibbetson to allow the descendants of the people buried in that cemetery to <br />maintain the gravesites would that also fall into this definition, would that work? If I said that <br />they were known and maintained, if they required him to allow them to maintain it would that, <br />would that address your concern with respect to the maintenance? <br />LINDSEY:Yes. <br />EXHIBIT B <br />18 <br /> <br />