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going on right now. RAY: But, specifically, what's your suggestion to us? We've been tasked, this body formed, as part of the Charter. Every ten years we do this review. So, if you had your druthers, ideally, what would you have this Charter Commission do? VICENTE: Well, if keeping with the U.S. Constitution, everything become nullified. We're either in a state of nature or we're in a state of anarchy. Anarchy is what exists right now because there's conflicts in law, and I see that as anarchy. RAY: Chris, do you have any - Help me out here. 1 think I hear what you're saying. I mean, I think basically you're saying everything we're doing is not a valid process. VICENTE: Just a waste of everybody's time. RAY: In regard to your interpretation. VICENTE: I don't want nobody usurping power over me because I'm not in agreement. It's like a contract. I'm not in a contract with the County of Hawaii. I didn't authorize them by consent, according to the Declaration of Independence, power to taxes by the consent of the governed. And if the public going to be in a couple of different publics, well, it's kind of hard to be usurping power over everybody, yeah? I think it needs to be defined. Public Law 103-150 says one thing. The State Constitution says something else. The County Charter says something else. We got to know who we are. RAY: Anybody have any response to that? MARTIN: Yes. I'd like to refer to a question that I asked several meetings back when some of the individuals here came and asked several questions, and 1 asked if there was any validity to what they were saying, because as you said, John, it was over our heads, definitely over mine. But, being American Indian and knowing a little bit about that aspect, I can understand it. And I asked Chris, was there any validity, and I believe the answer came back. So, at this point again, I ask, does it warrant us going in any other direction than we've been going in? YUEN: Mr. Vicente is saying, if I understand you correctly, that actually the United States could not expand beyond the original 13 colonies. Is that correct? VICENTE: Not according to Article 4, Section 3, Clause 1. You have to be recognized as a State. The word "state" is defined in the Declaration of Independence. You have to be able to wage war, conclude peace, sign treaties and do all the things a nation state does. The State of Hawaii has no treaties, no nothing. It 3