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BOCHE: Yes, I don't disagree with you in the best of worlds. I think either <br />explanation is equally valid in any given specific case. People can advance by hard <br />work, diligence, qualifications, in one system if the system is well designed and <br />functioning in accountable system and if it's not, they can advance by other means. <br />And that's all I'm saying and I'm not pointing my finger at any particular group. <br />RAY: Okay, thanks Ken. Lesley, you had a comment? <br />PATTON: I have a small technical question and a comment. The technical question <br />was is there any stipulation or guideline for this Commission to come up with up to <br />maximum proposed amendments or recommended or anything? <br />RAY: No. <br />PATTON: It's open to your discretion? <br />RAY: Right. <br />PATTON: Okay. <br />RAY: I think the last two Charter Commissions - I think there were 13 proposed <br />• amendments the first time and 18 the second. And by the way, that's in the front of <br />your Charter. It lists the proposed amendments in the last two Charter reviews so that's <br />an interesting thing to look at - what was proposed right there in the very start. Okay? <br />PATTON: Thank you very much. The comment I had was sort of in response to <br />what you had said and to you, about people applying. <br />MARNI: Volunteering? <br />PATTON: Volunteering. And tragedy is a bit large of a word but something along <br />that line, of the thing is, in the past year there was an opening for a Water <br />Commissioner from Kohala and there was a opening for a Planning Commissioner <br />from Kohala and unfortunately, it was sort of a standard joke around the community that <br />those people who had bothered to become informed and involved at a community level <br />would not apply because they did not perceive, in a Mayor appointed Commission in <br />this particular time, in this particular administration, any hope of being selected. And <br />so, because it is mayorally appointed and because there's politics in almost any <br />decision that's made, volunteerism is discouraged whereas if you had an election, it <br />would depend on the people in your district knowing you and what your positions are <br />and it would also, by having election as Ken said, put the issues right out in front for <br />discussion. What's the forum at this point for discussing, in a community, a particular <br />issue? We sort of have to create community groups and do it and it's like oh no, <br />27 <br />