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on the CountyCouncil. They would be more interested in who he is and what he is going to do, I think. It would make them more aware of the County Council. There is one other thing on this, the County Council. By taking it down to election representative districts you are going to cut the cost of campaigning tremendously. As it is now, a man who wants to run from Kona has to spend most of his time in Hilo because that is where the votes are. The man in Ka'u is going to have to spend time in Kona and in Hilo, too. So you are going to do a lot less campaigning,- a lot less campaigning expense if you do that'. And you are going to open up the opportunity for more people to run for the County Council , it seems to me. MR. TRULSON: One more question. Perhaps I just don ' t quite understand it. Part 4 in your letter on restriction on the use of initiative and referendum. The charter provides for initiative and refer- endum with restrictions and you just want to remove all this. . . MR. MOSS: We just want to take all restrictions off of it. Anything is fair game. MR. TRULSON: If you did something like that. ( Aren ' t you kind of opening up a can of worms? Any rsmall group can get together at any time and just keep bombarding for this. Don ' t you have to have some restrictions so the things that are are brought before are reali,y a legitimate type of. . . . . MR. MOSS: I 've alwas' heard that initiative and referendum--the use of it--is pretty rare. The only place. that I have ever heard of it being used tremendously is California and there, yes, it has been used quite a bit. I 've never heard of it being used in this county. It was used up in Kauai just recently and interestingly enough when they took it to the people, the people voted it down. So I don ' t think you are going to find it used very often. It seems to me that it' is the ultimate protection of the voter If he is really dissatisfied. If enough of them are dissatisfied , they can get together and do something about it. MR. TRULSON: So you say to leave initiative andreferendum in the charter but remove all restrictions. ' MR. MOSS: That ' s right. Correct. MRS. IWAMOTO: I have a question to ask re- garding the incorporation of the departments. Take, for example, the department of public service. If we combine the police, fire, safety and mass transit and civil defense together this would mean that we would need a department head_who_is very knowledgable in all areas. As I see it, right _now, we have, let ' s`Atake, ' for:) example the -fire ddpr t ament�9_a person- who has had experience .:. workng inthe_.f ire_.department, to be„the ead,,_and who is know- legable and, I think , he is able to run the department effic- iently as it is right now. I wonder whether we can get someone - , 22 - . .