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would be good enough, that they are working to finishing it. So I think perhaps leaving it as <br /> substantial completion should be good enough, as Mr. Fuke suggested. <br /> CARR SMITH: I'm fine with substantial; I was just wondering, I was curious as to what his <br /> idea, what that meant. Mr. Van Pernis. <br /> VAN PERNIS: Two things. First, substantial completion legally could mean it's already got <br /> substantial completion because the foundation is in. We need to have specific language, not the <br /> word "substantial completion"because that allows the developer, Mr. Fuke, or whoever speaks <br /> at the next Planning Commission meeting to say there is substantial completion. I would say we <br /> need to be specific; the roof has to be on, and the framing has to be done. Can you imagine a <br /> framing without a roof abandoned at that time? That's the first issue. <br /> The second issue is, with all due respect to the chairman, the submission of the application by a <br /> non-existent entity invites litigation to cancel this permit either by Kona Reef or someone else. <br /> And I think that it's incumbent upon the applicant to prove they exist. Let me give you an <br /> analogy: Let's say an individual files an application before the expiration, and then he dies, the <br /> application becomes moot. And the fact that the Planning Department accepted this—well, <br /> "accepted" is a strange word, but—accepted this application but, as was testified today, did not <br /> look into at all the issue <br /> CARR SMITH: Okay, Mark, I feel like we are being repetitive here; we've already talked about <br /> this, and we've moved past this <br /> VAN PERNIS: Well, we haven't— <br /> CARR <br /> aven'tCARR SMITH: so we are working on the <br /> VAN PERNIS: I think that— <br /> CARR <br /> hatCARR SMITH: Mark <br /> VAN PERNIS: the applicant— <br /> CARR <br /> pplicantCARR SMITH: Mark <br /> VAN PERNIS: this application is <br /> CARR SMITH: Noriko, can you mute him,please? Thank you. Malia, go ahead. <br /> HALL: Sorry,just for clarification, we are using two different terms right now. Are we talking <br /> about substantial commencement or const—because that's different from substantial <br /> completion—so I just want to make sure you guys at least get that wording right in your, the <br /> intention of your condition. <br /> 29 <br /> EXHIBIT B <br />