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GRAHAM:Thank you very much. I know as Commissioner I€m always looking for <br />the right since that€s where (inaudible) to, either of the Commissioners on my left side have any <br />comments or, put into this conversation? Commissioner Springer? <br />SPRINGER:I guess either to the Director or the staff on page 3 of the recommendation <br />in the narrative section. It says there is no evidence of any traditional and customary native <br />Hawaiian rights being practiced on the site. What is the evidence for that? <br />YUEN:I€m not sure, Mr. Hayashi? <br />HAYASHI:What page was that? <br />SPRINGER:That€s on page 3 in the narrative section. <br />GRAHAM:Down the next to the last paragraph this is on the orange papers Norman <br />the recommendation. Page 3 on the recommendation. <br />SPRINGER:It€s the last sentence of the as Commissioner Graham was saying the <br />second to the last paragraph. <br />HAYASHI:Well basically we took that off of the, since the archaeological report were <br />accepted and basically we€re stating that from that report there does not seem to be any evidence. <br />SPRINGER:May I? <br />GRAHAM:Yes please. Commissioner Springer? <br />SPRINGER:You know one of the things traditional and customary practitioners is they <br />may conduct those practices in such a way that they are not observed. And again lacking any <br />interviews with kamaaina or local informants to tell me that practice hasn€t been abandoned. I <br />don€t have evidence of that because the archaeological report does not discuss that per say. <br />Thanks. <br />GRAHAM:Thank you. Any other comments from the Commissioners? I personally <br />was still concerned about the Judd Trail and I think the Judd Trail is both a historical <br />consideration and also like a public access live consideration right now. And I know on the same <br />page in the recommendations and the same paragraph Commissioner Springer is speaking of <br />right after the highlighted text it says there€s no public access to shoreline or mountain areas and <br />then farther on in this, in the area. And clearly I view that Judd Trail is a important public <br />access. And I guess I wanted to ask the Director seems like the Judd Trail has been overlooked <br />asfarasthepublicinterestofpreservingitandbringingitbacktousethroughlandusechanges <br />over the last number of years. Is the Judd Trail so far gone that its kind of a you know an <br />eclecticexerciseyousitandtalkaboutusingtheJuddTrail?Orshouldwebeconcernedthat <br />now may be the moment where its forth putting our attention on the Judd Trail to get proper <br />meetsandboundsandtogetwhatmightbenecessarytobringtheJuddTrailbacktosome <br />functional use or do you feel like that€s too much water over the dam already? <br />EXHIBIT <br />17 <br /> <br />